To be saddened that anyone would want to take away a woman’s right to safe abortion?

[Balayagequeen]

It makes me sad and angry that there are so many people who believe that a woman’s right to a termination is up for debate/political football.

It’s always privileged men too.

No woman should be forced to continue with a pregnancy that she doesn’t want.

An abortion is a very safe, simple procedure, it’s a personal and private choice, it’s discreet, no one is ramming it down anyone else’s throat or trying to persuade others to do it. The vast majority of the time is done very early on in the pregnancy. Evidence shows that there are no long term negative physical or mental effects on the woman.

As someone who works for children’s services, there are already far too many children in the care system and they can end up deeply traumatised, and having poor outcomes in life, adoptions often don’t work out and even when they do can be extremely traumatic for both the mother and child. That is not to take away from all of the wonderful adoptive parents and foster carers, but please let’s not romanticise it.

Most adoptions are because the birth parents are unable to care for the child, not because the mother willingly gave the baby up. Therefore to force a woman to give birth would potentially be the worse option for the woman, the child and any existing siblings. It isn’t a fairytale ending where a woman willingly gives up her baby to a loving couple to live happily ever after.

There are babies conceived in poverty, domestic abuse, rape, teenage pregnancies, older age pregnancies. These women should not be forced to give birth, it is not the better option for anyone.

If abortion was ever restricted in the western world then I have no doubt that it would result in unsafe illegal abortions, risking the woman’s life.

Women take all the risk with pregnancy and childbirth. They take an enormous toll on a woman body, her mental health, her life outcomes. We are not living in the dark ages, women deserve the choice.

What right does any privileged male who has probably never experienced any of these things and has probably done very little child rearing, who can never conceive or give birth, have to try to restrict a women’s access to abortion?

Are they themselves going to care for the babies born? Or will they expect that someone else will do it?

Of course there are things worse than death.

believe that most abortions are completely avoidable if adults behaved responsibly

OK but if this is true, do you think we should only provide medical care to people who are wholly responsible? Right? Otherwise someone who’s crashed their car shouldn’t be able to get a paramedic out. Is that what you believe? We can also dispense of mountain rescue if that’s ok with you?

I personally wouldn't deny abortion to victims of rape

Can I ask how you’d see this working in practice?

So a woman is raped and wants an abortion. How does she prove it?

Does she have to wait for her rapist to be convicted? Problem so only 1% of rapes end in conviction and by the time it’s al done the baby will be born?

Should a police report be required? What about when the rapist is her husband, or father and she has good reasons not to go to the police?

Do we take her word for it? If so, do you not think women would have to resort to simply lying about being raped? Is that the right thing to do?

How would it work?

The female body will naturally abort a foetus. Miscarriage is fairly common. What do you think about that? If it's so wrong why does the human body do it?

It’s not good to frame it as anti vs pro abortion. Most people sit somewhere in the middle of this and that’s why there will always be debate - every generation will have to deal with this somehow. Kathleen Stock has done some fantastic writing about this. Obviously, there are moral problems with ending a life, especially a human life. We should always be checking the compass around this and course correcting if needed. Declaring no debate only emboldens those who demand full restriction. There are concessions that must be made from both sides on this, and a regulatory path that prevents the worst tragedies without resorting to arbitrary categories of ‘human’ - some of whom can be killed or left to die in a bowl, and others who can’t. We may not like it, but it is complicated.

absolutely this

It’s not good to frame it as anti vs pro abortion. Most people sit somewhere in the middle of this and that’s why there will always be debate - every generation will have to deal with this somehow. Kathleen Stock has done some fantastic writing about this. Obviously, there are moral problems with ending a life, especially a human life. We should always be checking the compass around this and course correcting if needed. Declaring no debate only emboldens those who demand full restriction. There are concessions that must be made from both sides on this, and a regulatory path that prevents the worst tragedies without resorting to arbitrary categories of ‘human’ - some of whom can be killed or left to die in a bowl, and others who can’t. We may not like it, but it is complicated.

There is no need to have an abortion. Use contraception or take the MAP. Unless in rare, extreme circumstances where the mother's life is at risk.

How ignorant. Offensively ignorant.

What about women infected with Zika or Rubella during pregnancy? Or women carrying foetuses with major genetic abnormalities? Should these women be obliged to give birth to severely damaged babies, some of whom might not live more than a few hours after birth, or may have short, painful, uncomprehending lives? Are the forced-birthers going to provide 24h care, the costs of equipment and specialist schooling?

It is a choice however that’s the whole point of the post, people out there want the choice to have one to be made illegal.

It’s not silly at all.

People are claiming that an embryo is the same as a newborn of human life.

But you don't need to ever have one.
No one will force you to have an abortion

I'm not anti abortion but there definitely needs to be a cut off, imo after the 20 week scan with a healthy fetus.
Any point after 24 weeks you are just killing a baby.. Unless there is a good reason for it e.g incompatibility with life or risk to the mothers life.

Exactly. It’s either the same, or it’s not.

I wonder, if men were the ones who were pregnant and had to give birth and do the majority of caregiving.

Where the abortion debate would stand.

The female body will naturally abort a foetus. Miscarriage is fairly common. What do you think about that? If it's so wrong why does the human body do it?

In countries where abortion is banned, women have been criminalised for miscarrying. How could they prove that their miscarriage was spontaneous, not deliberate?!

Sorry if it's already been said I'm bit confused by the concept of avoiding a " forced birth" since the baby doesn't miraculously vanish once it's been killed. Still needs birthing.

I do wish the people coming on here proudly declaring theyre anti abortion would elaborate as to why.

I don't know where you live but the legal limit for termination in the UK is 24 weeks.

Death of a fetus matters much less than all of this.

And no I don’t see it as being equal to the mother. The concept is absurd and misogynistic

Do you understand what happens to women AND babies when abortion is outlawed?

Early abortions (which almost all abortions are) are nothing like giving birth.

My partner and I have made the joint decision to not have any further children.

We take steps to ensure I don’t fall pregnant, but I can tell you that if for any reason I did, I would absolutely get an abortion.

We have a child with significant complex needs and absolutely could not have another. We wouldn’t cope, my son wouldn’t cope, and the baby would be at potential risk in my house.

Pregnancy itself would present risk, because my son can be volatile.

People have abortions for all sorts of reasons, and to believe that in all cases an unborn foetus comes first is ludicrous. We all already exist and live here, and we would absolutely come first.

I think the queru is why is something only worthy when it’s independent. Maybe it can still be worthy when it’s dependant on someone else’s body.

Already is massively restricted ‘in the western world’. Have you not clocked Trump banging on about ‘We need babies’? As long as they’re not from illegal immigrants, of course. 🤦🏼‍♀️

It's taking a human life.

I mean that’s not how I’d describe it but I’ll play along - it doesn’t matter as much as the human life of the woman

You presumably don't consider it to be a "personal and private choice" when someone decides to kill a human being who's outside a uterus.

Im sure you think this is some kind of “gotcha” but you’ve given yourself away by pointing out that there are two separate classes of baby - one inside the uterus and one outside. They are at different stages and are classed differently. And the one inside the uterus isn’t as important as ANYONE outside the uterus

Because the human body, unlike the human mind, has no consciousness, no purpose, no moral sense, no concern with what's right or wrong. The human body always goes wrong in the end; it always dies. If it had any thoughts or intentions or desires it would probably start by taking better care of itself and stop growing tumours and the like. It's no good at all at keeping itself healthy and alive, let alone the second body that may be within it. It's all just genes and lifestyle and a big dose of good or bad luck.

I would be extremely happy if there were far fewer abortions. I don't see it as a morally neutral choice as some seem to. It really saddens me when you hear of pregnancies that could have very easily been avoided being terminated.

I dont think a foetus has the same rights or feelings as a woman or a child that has been born. And I accept that at the early stages they have virtually no awareness. But it seems wrong to me in much the same way as it would seem wrong to me to create a baby animal and then painlessly euthanize it - acceptable if the alternative is worse, but morally better to be avoided if possible.

So I very much wish that there were fewer abortions, and I think that its important that we continue to educate young women about options around contraception and that these methods may fail. That contraception is simple and cheap to access. That sterilisation is an option for those that want it (my sister is autistic. She is now 40 and has never ever wanted children. She has brought up sterilisation many times but always been told no, she might change her mind). That men are encouraged to have vasectomies. That women who do become accidentally pregnant could be supported to giving up those babies if they want to. I also think that its very important to support single mothers and not to judge a woman for having an unplanned child. Maternity rights are extremely important and should be protected.

I do think that it is very important that abortions are legal and accessible. Pregnancy and childbirth are physically taxing and carry risks. Restricting abortion leads to women taking dangerous risks, or doctors refusing one for fear of the law.

I just wish that it was possible to have a conversation about abortion without it being painted as totally black and white- that some people believe it should be illegal and others that it is totally morally neutral. It is possible for someone to have a right to something, but that not always to be the best path.

I find it very frustrating that incest (usually involving young vulnerable girls) and rape are so frequently given as examples. We all know that those make up a tiny proportion of the abortions that are carried out.

I think it’s been made quite clear. People are allowed to disagree.

Who is “left to die in a bowl”??