To be saddened that anyone would want to take away a woman’s right to safe abortion?

[Balayagequeen]

It makes me sad and angry that there are so many people who believe that a woman’s right to a termination is up for debate/political football.

It’s always privileged men too.

No woman should be forced to continue with a pregnancy that she doesn’t want.

An abortion is a very safe, simple procedure, it’s a personal and private choice, it’s discreet, no one is ramming it down anyone else’s throat or trying to persuade others to do it. The vast majority of the time is done very early on in the pregnancy. Evidence shows that there are no long term negative physical or mental effects on the woman.

As someone who works for children’s services, there are already far too many children in the care system and they can end up deeply traumatised, and having poor outcomes in life, adoptions often don’t work out and even when they do can be extremely traumatic for both the mother and child. That is not to take away from all of the wonderful adoptive parents and foster carers, but please let’s not romanticise it.

Most adoptions are because the birth parents are unable to care for the child, not because the mother willingly gave the baby up. Therefore to force a woman to give birth would potentially be the worse option for the woman, the child and any existing siblings. It isn’t a fairytale ending where a woman willingly gives up her baby to a loving couple to live happily ever after.

There are babies conceived in poverty, domestic abuse, rape, teenage pregnancies, older age pregnancies. These women should not be forced to give birth, it is not the better option for anyone.

If abortion was ever restricted in the western world then I have no doubt that it would result in unsafe illegal abortions, risking the woman’s life.

Women take all the risk with pregnancy and childbirth. They take an enormous toll on a woman body, her mental health, her life outcomes. We are not living in the dark ages, women deserve the choice.

What right does any privileged male who has probably never experienced any of these things and has probably done very little child rearing, who can never conceive or give birth, have to try to restrict a women’s access to abortion?

Are they themselves going to care for the babies born? Or will they expect that someone else will do it?

It's not an "actual baby". It's usually an embryo.

Exactly. Banning abortions doesn't stop women having abortions. It does stop women having safe abortions.

In what way isn’t it safe? The purpose is to prevent to progression of pregnancy. A pill is taken to stop the heartbeat. It is safe and simple.

Can I ask why you value the life of a fetus over the life of a living woman?

YANBU. It's supremely arrogant of some people to think they should get to have a say in what a random unrelated woman does with her body. What makes them so much more important than the rest of us that they deserve to control other people's lives?

Anyone who believes a fetus is a baby (which means it must be sentient) is ignorant of the facts, so who cares what they think. A fetus has zero ability to be sentient until late in pregnancy, at a point when abortion is only performed to save the life of the mother. What valid argument is there that a sentient woman is less important than a non-sentient fetus? The very notion is misogynistic in the extreme.

I am strongly of the opinion that every child should be a wanted and planned for child.

However, I have worked with premature babies. There is a point that they can survive outside their mother. They can feel pain.

I know that very few abortions happen after 23weeks and that most that do are because of health issues in the mother or fetus or because of rape. I agree with these.

I struggle with the dilemmas of late stage abortions, often in women who live chaotic lives with addiction or mental health problems or who do not look after their own health. It is likely that a child will have damage from the choices they have made if they are born.

I know it is likely to be in both mother and child's interests for the abortion to take place, but I find it hard to believe that suffering does not occur.

I think if this occurs once there should be strong incentives given to these women to have long term contraception implants so that it does not occur repeatedly.

So I cannot say that I am totally pro-abortion in all cases or that I believe women have the right to do whatever they want with their bodies, when that affects another human.

Ive already stated why fetuses shouldn’t be given the same value as newborn babies. Because they’re not the same

There already is a cut off limit...

I think it’s very difficult to go from sympathising with miscarriages and grieving over a 9 week old fetus but then saying other ones dont matter.

Aren't you really sympathising with woman for her upset and disappointment, rather than really thinking about the potential baby? I know I would be and even more so later in pregnancy.

For most women, giving birth isnt certain death but abortion is certain death for the child. If the pregnancy is so dangerous then there is certain death for the woman, I think most republicans themselves still believe in abortion. It can be difficult in practise though which is why there are issues in the usa.

In the UK, 0.013% of births lead to maternal deaths. And most pro-life people believe that exceptions should be made if the mother's life is at risk.

Both!

The pro life crowd literally put women in a second class citizen Cathory to an unborn baby. They literally value them less. I think we have to realise these are two VERY good points but pro life people won’t listen because they just don’t care

There already is a cut off limit...

There is but some people think there shouldn't be. Personally, I think the cut off is about right.

I can empathize with ignorant people, but if, after they are informed of the facts, they still believe a woman less important than non-sentient life, my empathy is gone, because they have proven their misogyny. Then they can fuck right off.

It does exist

If you legislate limiting women’s choices, it’s forcing them to give birth when you could provide an alternative but won’t because you value a fetus more than women

Can I ask, if you want to outlaw abortion, what about the tens of thousands of children who’ll be born into poverty or the care system? How do you feel about those babies and the inevitable miserable lives they’ll lead?

In those two situations, most pro life people believe im abortion.

And yes you are right. The whole point of pro life is that the baby - an innocent new life - comes first. It always comes first.

The "child" has no awareness, no thought or feeling whatsoever. It therefore cannot be harmed and has no use for the right to live.

Why does it always come first?

An abortion shouldn’t be a moral judgment on a woman.

It isn’t right or fair to say that because one woman has done x, y or z and that you judge that to be wrong then you would like to see abortion banned or restricted for all women and girls.

No ons has any real idea as an abortion is a very personal choice and women aren’t going to share with you their reasons.

Contraception isn’t necessarily easily accessible for all women and girls and it isn’t 100% reliable.

That’s
not quite true.

That’s a really long way of saying that women don’t matter as much as a fetus.

Do you understand what would happen to women AND babies if abortion was outlawed?

And what is it to you if another woman has an abortion? How does it affect you?

As well as poverty there are the thousands of women who's partners become abusive during pregnancy.

I was in a refuge some years ago and probably 80% of the women in there were pregnant (including me).

These men get emboldened to abuse because they know they have effectively cornered the woman when she's pregnant.

@Maltipoo

Are you saying that premature babies have "no awareness, no thought or feeling whatsoever."?

And if you care so much about babies, is it just caring about them being delivered into the world or do you care about their quality of life too?

What do you think the quality of life for an unwanted baby, a baby born into poverty or the care system, looks like?