To be saddened that anyone would want to take away a woman’s right to safe abortion?

[Balayagequeen]

It makes me sad and angry that there are so many people who believe that a woman’s right to a termination is up for debate/political football.

It’s always privileged men too.

No woman should be forced to continue with a pregnancy that she doesn’t want.

An abortion is a very safe, simple procedure, it’s a personal and private choice, it’s discreet, no one is ramming it down anyone else’s throat or trying to persuade others to do it. The vast majority of the time is done very early on in the pregnancy. Evidence shows that there are no long term negative physical or mental effects on the woman.

As someone who works for children’s services, there are already far too many children in the care system and they can end up deeply traumatised, and having poor outcomes in life, adoptions often don’t work out and even when they do can be extremely traumatic for both the mother and child. That is not to take away from all of the wonderful adoptive parents and foster carers, but please let’s not romanticise it.

Most adoptions are because the birth parents are unable to care for the child, not because the mother willingly gave the baby up. Therefore to force a woman to give birth would potentially be the worse option for the woman, the child and any existing siblings. It isn’t a fairytale ending where a woman willingly gives up her baby to a loving couple to live happily ever after.

There are babies conceived in poverty, domestic abuse, rape, teenage pregnancies, older age pregnancies. These women should not be forced to give birth, it is not the better option for anyone.

If abortion was ever restricted in the western world then I have no doubt that it would result in unsafe illegal abortions, risking the woman’s life.

Women take all the risk with pregnancy and childbirth. They take an enormous toll on a woman body, her mental health, her life outcomes. We are not living in the dark ages, women deserve the choice.

What right does any privileged male who has probably never experienced any of these things and has probably done very little child rearing, who can never conceive or give birth, have to try to restrict a women’s access to abortion?

Are they themselves going to care for the babies born? Or will they expect that someone else will do it?

But surely you can empathise with someone who believes that killing a baby is worse than forced birth? Like if you give the fetis the same value as a newborn baby, then killing s newborn is worse than forcing someone to give birth (imo). One is definite death and another is only possible death and perhaps trauma. Surely you can understand that view?

You don't need to tell me that.

Not really.

I would have every sympathy for a woman who has had a miscarriage, because the woman is grieving for what could have been, for what she wanted. I’d also have every sympathy for a woman who had an abortion, it may have been a difficult decision.

I’m not saying that children in care are better off dead. They are here and they are alive and they deserve to be loved and cared for.

I am saying let’s not romanticise the idea that any baby born can just be happily adopted.

When she gives birth.

because that’s when the baby becomes independent of her.

You have to draw a line somewhere and that’s a pretty good and clear line to choose.

Dont get me wrong - I don’t feel comfortable with many situations in which women seek abortions. But I still support it in law because when we started legislating using morals and not facts, we go into a very grey area where both women and babies are unsafe.

I think that women who are in favour of forced birth need to always keep in the forefront of their minds that their stance will lead to:

1. Women dying - because firstly, desperate women will seek out abortion by illegal means if it is banned. So how many dead women is an acceptable number in order to preserve 'the sanctity of life'? And secondly - abortion bans lead to deadly unintended consequences. Women have died in Poland and in the US because their no longer viable pregnancies couldn't be ended because doctors were so afraid of the bans that they did not dare give these women the care they needed. Again - how many dead women is an acceptable number?

2. Women being forced to carry doomed pregnancies to term. I have a friend whose much wanted second pregnancy ended in a termination at 26 weeks because of a condition incompatible with life. It was a dreadful time, and she and her DH did not try again. How much crueller would it have been had she been forced to carry to term, give birth and then watch her baby die? Yet this is what those opposed to abortion want to see happening.

There's a deeply blinkered attitude there that utterly compromises morality and compassion.

5 months? How many weeks is that 20? Or was she more than that? I do think that the cut off point which I think is 24 weeks needs to be discussed. Obviously if the baby has a serious medical condition that's different.

Neither am I but I recognise why it must be legal.

22 weeks, iirc. It made me very uncomfortable tbh.

23 weeks, 6 days in the UK if 2 doctors agree a woman's mental or physical health is at stake.

Up to 40 weeks if the foetus is likely to be severely disabled or unlikely to survive beyond birth.

"Forced birth" doesn't exist. Birth is the natural outcome of a pregnancy. You can't force it. It will happen on its own unless it is interrupted through violence or natural miscarriage.

Oh yeah 100%

I really don’t think you can spout pro life rhetoric and not be misogynistic

Because at the end it’s ALL about controlling women

This.

people have become so desensitised to abortion and all about the woman’s rights only. They forget that it’s an actual baby whose life is being taken away because they are an inconvenience or unwanted or god forbid the wrong gender.

no one wants to be in a situation where they fall pregnant as a result of an act of crime however that doesn’t make the babies life less valid. That baby could still go on to live a very normal and happy life be that through adoption or if mum decides to keep her baby etc. i appreciate this is hard for the mum but having your life ended is also traumatic for the baby.

I actually used to be pro choice because of the rape argument and I couldn’t see past it however I ended up learning a lot more and watching lots of interviews of now adults who were born to mums who had been raped and the adults were saying how grateful they were that their life was saved and they could live and be happy. By having an abortion your taking away a babies chance at having a life and that is so sad. People are having abortions for the most minor of reasons

being a mum means making a sacrifice and putting someone elses life before you.

Ofcourse when there is a threat to mum or babies life for medical reasons or baby will be born with 0 quality of life in a medical sense then that’s different. Still sad but you can’t expect a baby to suffer for all of their life.

So to the people who consider a fetus the exact same as a baby or child.

Would you be willing to adopt all of the babies born through forced birth? Or are you expecting that someone else will do it?

Do you stand for better maternity care and rights, better state benefits for mothers, better housing. Do you stand for harsher sentences for rape?

What do you think will happen to all of the women and children?

If an abortion is wanted, but inaccessible, then a birth has been forced upon that woman.

How on earth was that approved? That’s extremely sad.

That’s not a fair reflection of that thread.
The woman had had an abortion at 19 weeks (well within the timescales) because of the breakdown in the relationship. The partner was becoming and continued to become abusive.
The question the OP was posting was a financial one re the break up. She made a mistake of mentioning the abortion in her OP and it derailed the thread. She was not confused about his feelings but she made a totally valid choice that she could not continue with the pregnancy given the relationship was ending.

How about instead of always coming after women's rights, we plough some money into male birth control research and major ad campaign for vasectomies? Prevent pregnancy at the source.

Because you have to draw a line somewhere.

Being independent of another person is a good line to draw

A newborn doesn’t need its mother alive to survive, at all. It’s preferable but not entirely dependent. Sadly many women die in childbirth but their babies live. Why is that?

Or a safe medical procedure to end the pregnancy.

What about the woman’s right to life?

A baby is independent when it is born?

Many women seem to use it like contraception. Celebs like Lily Allen couldn't remember how many she'd had.

Even in rape cases surely the MAP is available.

Fortunately in this country we have easy access to contraception and while I agree it is a woman's choice I don't support that choice but I'm not a hcp so don't have to encounter the situation.

Because it was within the legal limit, maybe? 🙄

I believe there’s a point in gestation where forced birth is better than forced baby death for no health reason. Sometimes the woman has to suffer. It sucks! Youd be giving birth regardless.

My mistake, I was sure it was over 20 weeks. I don't recall abuse, just that the relationship broke down.