To be saddened that anyone would want to take away a woman’s right to safe abortion?

[Balayagequeen]

It makes me sad and angry that there are so many people who believe that a woman’s right to a termination is up for debate/political football.

It’s always privileged men too.

No woman should be forced to continue with a pregnancy that she doesn’t want.

An abortion is a very safe, simple procedure, it’s a personal and private choice, it’s discreet, no one is ramming it down anyone else’s throat or trying to persuade others to do it. The vast majority of the time is done very early on in the pregnancy. Evidence shows that there are no long term negative physical or mental effects on the woman.

As someone who works for children’s services, there are already far too many children in the care system and they can end up deeply traumatised, and having poor outcomes in life, adoptions often don’t work out and even when they do can be extremely traumatic for both the mother and child. That is not to take away from all of the wonderful adoptive parents and foster carers, but please let’s not romanticise it.

Most adoptions are because the birth parents are unable to care for the child, not because the mother willingly gave the baby up. Therefore to force a woman to give birth would potentially be the worse option for the woman, the child and any existing siblings. It isn’t a fairytale ending where a woman willingly gives up her baby to a loving couple to live happily ever after.

There are babies conceived in poverty, domestic abuse, rape, teenage pregnancies, older age pregnancies. These women should not be forced to give birth, it is not the better option for anyone.

If abortion was ever restricted in the western world then I have no doubt that it would result in unsafe illegal abortions, risking the woman’s life.

Women take all the risk with pregnancy and childbirth. They take an enormous toll on a woman body, her mental health, her life outcomes. We are not living in the dark ages, women deserve the choice.

What right does any privileged male who has probably never experienced any of these things and has probably done very little child rearing, who can never conceive or give birth, have to try to restrict a women’s access to abortion?

Are they themselves going to care for the babies born? Or will they expect that someone else will do it?

If only there was a way of preventing unwanted pregnancies in the first place.

I wonder is @Chiseltip can give advice on women abstaining from being raped?

There is no 100% method. Apart from hysterectomy but that seems extreme for a contraception method.

Sometimes people get pregnant when they don’t mean to. What do you expect them to do? Turn back time?

No. But if you decide to have sex, accept the consequences. There should only extremly limited circumstances when abortion is necessary. Rape, medical intervention to save the life of the mother, are, I believe, acceptable.

Having one because you don't want to accept the consequences of your decisions, isn't.

Others will disagree of course. But it's mostly a completely unnecessary procedure. You simply can't have sex and not expect to risk pregnancy.

Contraceptives fail - hence our DT’s. Very much loved although the timing was not ideal.

We were fortunate enough that I didn’t need to have an abortion but I’m 100% in favour of a women’s right to choose.

Do you expect other people with heath crises to “accept the consequences of their actions” and not be allowed healthcare?

People with cancer?

People in vehicle collisions?

People who have workplace accident?

Afterall they can’t just damage their health/drive too fast/not pay attention and not expect something bad to happen!

Or is it just women who need to be ticked off for their choices and have healthcare withheld as a punishment and lifelong lesson that will have devastating consequence for more than just her?

And I’ve asked a few people who’ve mentioned abortion should only be accessible due to rape, no one has answered so I’d be interested in getting your opinion. How would that work on a practical level? What happens when a woman tells her doctor she’s been raped and is pregnant and wants an abortion, what are the terms of granting her an abortion? I’ll give options to make the discussion easier;

• Should a man be tried and convicted before the abortion is granted. Innocent til proven guilty right?
• Should she have to make a police report before she can get an abortion?
• Would her word be enough?

The law does not agree

Well don't do it.

I know someone who had one that late because she'd been in a physically and mentally abusive relationship for years.

It turned out her partner had 3 people pregnant at the same time. I say people because one was a 16 year old girl. He was nearly 50.

He was arrested and jailed for a shocking but unrelated reason at the same time. Although that crime did increase her risk levels from him.

His jail sentence and her abortion allowed her to escape him permanently.

I am absolutely comfortable with late term abortions

Sometimes women both want and need them.

Their body, their choice.

It's got nothing to do with accepting the consequences of actions. As you rightly point out no one refuses medical treatment for other lifestyle choices.

It is entirely about controlling women.

And why shouldn't women be able to enjoy sex without the threat of forced pregnancy? What a prudish and abhorrent view.

Absolutely.

Honestly I think some women see The Handmaid’s Tale as a goal, not a work of fiction

I agree it was right this termination was allowed. But should this late gestation abortion qualify as a more extreme scenario eg where 2 doctors need to sign off based on extenuating circumstances or something?
I don’t know answer . im just asking questions.

Haven't read all of the thread beacuse, frankly, it's 32 pages and will take too long.

My personal view is that there is a place for abortion within a civilised society. However, I do feel that culturally we have become far too flippant with abortions being a 'get out', treated like an additional form of contraception. This shouldn't be the case (imho).

Every talks about BC failing and what then? Ultimately though, if both parties involved in doing the deed are taking precautions, then the likelihood of pregnancy is quite slim.

I do agree, that there are situations where people shouldn't be bringing more children into the world: women in abusive relationships, product of rape and there are occasions where the family just won't cope with an additional child. I also feel that the previous practice of abortions having to be signed off was a valid one.

I absolutely agree! You can't go down the slippery slope of penalising people if they have repeated abortions.

I was just thinking about another post where someone had said it's very traumatic to have an abortion. Obviously, it doesn't seem to be for people who choose it as a form of contraception.

In the first case I mentioned, the girl seems to have lots of 'issues' generally. She would probably be described as being 'scatty'. In the second case, it seems to be coercive control. He definitely doesn't treat her well. She doesn't want her boyfriend to leave her (I think he pretty much has done that now anyway), so she has sex with him without using contraception, and then is very traumatised when he insists she has an abortion. He was telling her he would like to have another baby with her (they already have one child together), but "now isn't the right time".

2 doctors ALWAYS need to sign off on an abortion no matter what stage.

And a woman can and will discuss her reasons for an abortion.

But doctors will perform in PURELY on a medical basis. They don’t sit in moral judgement and decide “Actually I won’t give you this abortion because this baby will be the making of you” or “OMG hun 5 months wow that makes me uncomfortable sorry it’s a no”. They sit in medical judgement to ensure safety and governance is observed - not to decide if she’s worthy enough of bodily autonomy that she was a legal right to

Abortion can’t be a contraception because contraception overt pregnancy. Women seeking abortion are already pregnant.

And of course it’s a “get out”. What did you think the purpose of abortions was?

Ialso feel that the previous practice of abortions having to be signed off was a valid one.

It is - were you under the impression it changed?? Who told you that no one signs off abortions anymore? How did you think women get abortions?!

Not that slim - have a look at this.

https://www.bpas.org/more-services-information/contraception/

These rates are per 100 women. So multiply that by the number of UK women who are sexually active...

Contraceptive failure is a massive contributor to abortion rates. We need better contraception, we need men who don't want children to step up and get vasectomies, and we need women who don't want (more) children to be taken at their word and get sterilisation if they ask for it.

Abortion can’t be contraception.

And I imagine it’s always, it not traumatising, at the very least but painful and unpleasant

But let’s say a woman is fine and feels no sorrow or emotion or trauma having an abortion - so what. I can’t STAND the notion women should always be shuffling along scraping and apologising for everything they do. That women should say they’re bad people out loud before we give them rights or even basic respect.

well rape is hardly a clear cut crime.

And there it is folks.

I'm not anti abortion - I've had one - but this argument always irks me.

If people see it as murder then they will feel morally obligated to try to stop it going on around them.

I see your point fully, but that's why I said both parties taking responsibility for birth control - belt and braces, if you will 😁

And I agree again, the point you make about vasectomies and sterilisation is exactly what I mean - taking personal responsibility for the situation. I am aware of the issues surrounding women being refused sterilisation because 'they may decide they want more children' even though they have already made their decision. I'm not saying there aren't issues.

However, I am also aware of women (personally) who treat abortion like an option to 'sort it out' afterwards. Reaction rather than prevention. This, for me, is a huge issue

Come on. I’ll try again.

I am saying… that there are basically no scenarios in which a normal third trimester pregnancy would need to undergo feticide before delivery in order to save the life of the pregnant woman.

I know there are a few complex words there to get your head around but please do your best.

Feel like in banging my head against a brick wall.

You like to make a lot of assumptions.

However, I am also aware of women (personally) who treat abortion like an option to 'sort it out' afterwards. Reaction rather than prevention. This, for me, is a huge issue

And how would our society benefit from these women being denied abortions and forced to carry to term?

Exactly! How
can people
Not
get that?

Bless you for trying, but, well, you’re wrong