To be saddened that anyone would want to take away a woman’s right to safe abortion?

[Balayagequeen]

It makes me sad and angry that there are so many people who believe that a woman’s right to a termination is up for debate/political football.

It’s always privileged men too.

No woman should be forced to continue with a pregnancy that she doesn’t want.

An abortion is a very safe, simple procedure, it’s a personal and private choice, it’s discreet, no one is ramming it down anyone else’s throat or trying to persuade others to do it. The vast majority of the time is done very early on in the pregnancy. Evidence shows that there are no long term negative physical or mental effects on the woman.

As someone who works for children’s services, there are already far too many children in the care system and they can end up deeply traumatised, and having poor outcomes in life, adoptions often don’t work out and even when they do can be extremely traumatic for both the mother and child. That is not to take away from all of the wonderful adoptive parents and foster carers, but please let’s not romanticise it.

Most adoptions are because the birth parents are unable to care for the child, not because the mother willingly gave the baby up. Therefore to force a woman to give birth would potentially be the worse option for the woman, the child and any existing siblings. It isn’t a fairytale ending where a woman willingly gives up her baby to a loving couple to live happily ever after.

There are babies conceived in poverty, domestic abuse, rape, teenage pregnancies, older age pregnancies. These women should not be forced to give birth, it is not the better option for anyone.

If abortion was ever restricted in the western world then I have no doubt that it would result in unsafe illegal abortions, risking the woman’s life.

Women take all the risk with pregnancy and childbirth. They take an enormous toll on a woman body, her mental health, her life outcomes. We are not living in the dark ages, women deserve the choice.

What right does any privileged male who has probably never experienced any of these things and has probably done very little child rearing, who can never conceive or give birth, have to try to restrict a women’s access to abortion?

Are they themselves going to care for the babies born? Or will they expect that someone else will do it?

Imagine being brought into the world to be a consequence to your mother. Anti-abortionists generally confirm my view that life is not a gift. I think we should think very carefully before giving birth to anyone.

It's not just an opinion if they're trying to stop assisted dying ever becoming law. It's people trying to control others because they don't personally like something. The same type of people who would vote to ban abortion if they could. How come I know almost all these people happen to have strong religious beliefs if it's far more complex than that?

God you REALLY want to police women’s sex lives don’t you.

Its almost like you’re not bothered about babies at all.

No idea why I’m even conversing with a robot <has word with self>

I don’t think anyone ever claimed fetuses don’t move?! Just that in abortions they aren’t aware of what’s happening and don’t feel pain or distress

As early as possible, as late as necessary.

They move because being cut into hurts. It's called sentience.

They feel pain which is why they are anesthetized.

Are you under the impression that there’s an abundance of high quality adopters out there??

If you feel like being depressed for a little while, look up statistics on the life course of children in care. Many of them never experience love.

But hey as long as they’re taking that first breath, fuck them for the rest of their miserable lives, and bollocks the woman who was forced to birth them, right

They don’t care.

Women deserve to be punished for having sex in their eyes, and an unborn fetus is a higher value than ALL living women. But only for the first 5 seconds of its life. As long as it takes its first breath, they no longer care what happens after that

No, they move because living things move and that is why we give them drugs to stop them moving so we don't slice into things we don't want to.

My dog had drugs to stop her moving so she could have an X-ray... which is a painless procedure. She had to be still for the images to be taken.

People and babies and foetuses have to be still for x-rays and MRIs and operations. It is nothing to do with pain.

I agree.

But not as a consolation prize for taking away the rights of women. That skills just happen anyway.

It’s not always about having a shit man, women seek abortions for so many other reasons. And if it’s outlawed women will still get abortions, illegal ones, and they’ll die horrible deaths. You OK with that?

That's democracy: people contribute to choosing the law. If a substantial number of people are opposed to something then that is part of the process wther you like it or not.

Believe it or not, your own personal opinions aren't facts.

What an idiotic thing to say: you've got an entire thread of secular arguments against abortion. The world is not America. I am not religious.

The argument against euthanasia is that it will lead to old/disabled people being killed or offing themselves to avoid being "burdens". It's a dangerous road to go down. It's not that opponents don't sympathise with long drawn out deaths.

Fucking hell, you reckon I’m the one making stuff up?

I realise you are struggling to follow it all but I’ll give it another try.

The law currently states that if the woman’s life is at risk, an abortion is allowed to be performed at any gestation (as you have said.). However, in reality this basically never happens for that reason. After 22 weeks, an abortion starts with a feticide procedure - an injection which stops the babies heart - before proceeding to delivery. The feticide doesn’t improve outcomes for the pregnant woman. If the woman’s life is at risk, it’s urgent delivery of a (hopefully) live baby. The other main reason for a currently legal 3rd trimester abortion is serious foetal abnormalities. Thankfully it’s very rare for these to be discovered so late in a pregnancy.

So yes, in my hypothetical dystopian world where all restrictions on abortions have been lifted, any remaining women who are still looking to abort their late term pregnancies for ‘personal reasons’ are not good people in my opinion.

In my first post, I compared a 38week foetus with a 1 week old newborn. You answered that the difference was one is alive and one isn’t. 👀

Please stop ranting and raving at me. As someone who as been through both a 1st trimester elective abortion and a late TMR, I could do without all that shit you just made up.

What about the born? Whats your view on them?

Please do copy and paste from your pro life bullshit tell us how backstreet abortions are greatly exaggerated, and please provide sources.

Which is how we all know it’s misogyny. Not children’s rights.

That's absolute bullshit. There's not an epidemic of women dying from abortions in first world countries where it's restricted.

Most illegal abortions are just ordinary medical/surgical abortions, but clandestine.

And they’re still unsafe because they aren’t in clinical, regulated conditions.

How do you feel about out the fact women miscarrying will die if you outlaw abortions? How do you feel about what happened to Saavita

Agreed.

Im just challenging those watering down the rape stats. Because what they’re trying to do is imply too few women are raped for it to matter

The whole idea of anyone having volition over a woman's body because she's carrying another human makes me very uncomfortable.

Do I think crack smoking in pregnancy is a great idea?

Of course not.

Do I think crack addicted pregnant women should become wards of the state until that baby is popped out to an uncertain future?

Fuck that noise.

Do I think middle class pregnant women should drink the odd glass of wine and eat rare steaks if they fancy?

Fill your boots.

Where do we draw the line about ownership of women's bodies?

Never, is obviously the right answer.

A foetus is just the idea of a person until it's born.

The extant woman is a person. She exists. Her wants, for good or bad, trump any touchy-feely ideas about the potential of life.

Why?

Do you believe abortion should be outlawed?

I hear ya!

This is SURGERY I'm discussing. Not X-rays. Fetuses move during surgery because they're sentient and they can feel being cut into.

If this was not the case, something to paralyze the muscles would be sufficient.

Do they expect medals just coming in and announcing the same thing then buggering off?

You do realise this is not America - there is no conflict between the constitutional rights to life, and rights to freedom and pursuit of happiness?

Therefore we in the UK don't have to pretend the fetus isn't alive, and declare it not a person?

Stop with this anti-science bullshit.

I'm not sure that response to stimulus denotes sentience.

I've moved worms before and they wriggle like fuck. Not sure they're sentient though.