To be saddened that anyone would want to take away a woman’s right to safe abortion?

[Balayagequeen]

It makes me sad and angry that there are so many people who believe that a woman’s right to a termination is up for debate/political football.

It’s always privileged men too.

No woman should be forced to continue with a pregnancy that she doesn’t want.

An abortion is a very safe, simple procedure, it’s a personal and private choice, it’s discreet, no one is ramming it down anyone else’s throat or trying to persuade others to do it. The vast majority of the time is done very early on in the pregnancy. Evidence shows that there are no long term negative physical or mental effects on the woman.

As someone who works for children’s services, there are already far too many children in the care system and they can end up deeply traumatised, and having poor outcomes in life, adoptions often don’t work out and even when they do can be extremely traumatic for both the mother and child. That is not to take away from all of the wonderful adoptive parents and foster carers, but please let’s not romanticise it.

Most adoptions are because the birth parents are unable to care for the child, not because the mother willingly gave the baby up. Therefore to force a woman to give birth would potentially be the worse option for the woman, the child and any existing siblings. It isn’t a fairytale ending where a woman willingly gives up her baby to a loving couple to live happily ever after.

There are babies conceived in poverty, domestic abuse, rape, teenage pregnancies, older age pregnancies. These women should not be forced to give birth, it is not the better option for anyone.

If abortion was ever restricted in the western world then I have no doubt that it would result in unsafe illegal abortions, risking the woman’s life.

Women take all the risk with pregnancy and childbirth. They take an enormous toll on a woman body, her mental health, her life outcomes. We are not living in the dark ages, women deserve the choice.

What right does any privileged male who has probably never experienced any of these things and has probably done very little child rearing, who can never conceive or give birth, have to try to restrict a women’s access to abortion?

Are they themselves going to care for the babies born? Or will they expect that someone else will do it?

Most of the points that anti-abortion people have made have not been answered at all.

They don’t feel pain from abortions. Their hearts stop.

But even if they did - so what. Someone had to. Better a fetus, completely unaware and not out in the world and no idea what it is, feel momentary pain than a actually loving woman is forced to give birth and two peoples lives are turned upside down and probably made miserable.

No, foetuses do not move during surgery as they will have been given drugs to stop them moving.
No surgeon could operate on someone who is moving. It does not happen.
YOU CAN NOT OPERATE ON MOVING PATIENT.

It is why that picture from a few years back of a foetus gripping the hand of the surgeon during surgery is bollocks.

I think pro lifers are actually SO thick that they think a fetus sits imagining its life, planning nights out with its mates and looking forward to being born, and is fully aware when its mother decides to abort and is heartbroken.

I don’t know what some pro lifers read but the reason there’s SO MUCH bullshit in the movement is precisely because simpletons who can’t think critically and believe anything fall for it.

If the law changed the other way and abortions were illegal. My life would have been ruined. I would have had a baby at the age of 18 with a man who physically and sexually abused me. I thank the stars that didn’t happen. But I was in the first trimester.

I stand by what I said - a woman that wants an elective abortion at 38 weeks for personal reasons (NOT a TMR, induction or stillbirth) is a monster.

Stop making out that I said women that have still births are baby killers, what is wrong with you?

Of course it's bollox.

I staged a one girl/woman walkout at the age of 14 at my Catholic school when Life came and gave us a talk about such nonsense.

'We shouldn't listen to pro-life propaganda' was my parting shot.

I obviously got into a lot of trouble and was called a 'slag' by many of me colleagues.

I was virgin.

You said a woman getting an abortion at 38 weeks is a baby killer for sure. Knowing the only reason a woman would do this is to save her own life.

Do all the gymnastic you want to make out you meant something different. You didn’t.

Not sure what your spiel is proving exactly? I never denied any of that although I don’t know what “The feticide doesn’t improve outcomes for the pregnant woman” is supposed to mean. U less you’re denying that there are situations where abortions are necessary to save a woman’s life??

Typing it on the internet doesn’t make it true.

Yes, worms are sentient. You're mistaking sentience for sapience.

So you DO agree with 3rd trimester elective abortions then ay?

It’s not bullshit. And yes women in first world countries do die from illegal abortions.

BTW women in third world countries matter too. You should see the stats for those abortion rates!

is this what you anti choice people do? Call women liars? Deny the truth to make your misogyny easier to swallow?

Such as?

I'm not.

I don't think you know the difference though.

A bit off topic, but if one takes a real scunner to a particular bot, does that mean it has passed the Turing test? Asking for a friend, obviously.

This is a mind-numbing circular argument. Pro-aborts are obtuse.

Read this link on fetal pain from the BMJ of Medical Ethics before arguing any further:

Reconsidering fetal pain

So wait - YOU had an abortion for reasons you believable are justifiable (as do I, others wouldn’t just so you know, including people on this thread) but you want to restrict other women from doing so and judge other women??!

Absolutely gobsmacking

a woman that wants an elective abortion at 38 weeks for personal reasons (NOT a TMR, induction or stillbirth) is a monster.

Women who want abortions for lifestyle reasons ant 38 weeks and monsters actually have one thing in common - in that neither anctaully exist. It’s a myth, like the boogey man, designed to scaremonger. What a brilliant accidental comparison.

Many people including those on this thread would call you a monster for having an abortion (not me, I support your choice entirely and am so glad you could access it). How do you feel about that?!

I'm also allowed an opinion that I don't want religious zealots controlling what I can and cannot do when it's MY life not theirs.

What an idiotic thing to say: you've got an entire thread of secular arguments against abortion. The world is not America. I am not religious.

Thank fuck for that. But we're still getting plenty of American influences all the time. Wall to wall news coverage for two days of some American political influencer getting murdered. Every other time I turn on the TV there's Trump. Meanwhile most Americans don't even know who our prime minister is!

The argument against euthanasia is that it will lead to old/disabled people being killed or offing themselves to avoid being "burdens". It's a dangerous road to go down. It's not that opponents don't sympathise with long drawn out deaths.

I didn't know Theresa May was religious until she said "suicide is immoral" 🙄but it doesn't take long for religion to come out in these type of debates. If someone has valid concerns over safeguarding or some other reason not to support AD or abortion rights then that's one thing, but leave religion and it being "immoral" out of it.

Haven’t you already asked me this question??

Your reaching and habit of making things up is most amusing.

Anyone who has worked in social services or homeless family services wouldn't say this....children are broken and suffer beyond repair and then we lock them up as criminals, drug addicts or homeless when they age out of foster care. I was one of the lucky ones who should have been aborted but only because of an epstein esque situation where someone fell in love with me. Married 22 years

Women also die from legal abortions.

Don't start with the manipulative insinuations of racism and not caring about the third world. You know full well the reason I qualified first world is because healthcare is not always accessible or of good quality in developing countries.

um I hate to burst your bubble but this links disproves your point. We are talking about legal abortions before 24 weeks. Those features don’t feel pain. But again so what if they did. A small price to pay for the right of women to control their own bodies

You have clearly not read the review - that's glaringly obvious even if there wasn't merely one minute since I posted it.

The whole point is reconsidering the "evidence" for the 24 week pain cut off.

Actually latest data reports zero deaths from
legal abortions

So you think that banning abortions will be fine because women can still access illegal abortions and it may be performed by a doctor?

For what end? To overpopulate the country with unwanted babies and further burden burdened systems?

Is it worth it?

I said a woman seeking an abortion. That might be a legal abortion in a country that allows it (did you know there are other countries than the one you live in??), an illegal backstreet abortion (these do happen) or a hypothetical UK under different laws.

You must be thick as shit if you don’t understand this.

I never denied any of that although I don’t know what “The feticide doesn’t improve outcomes for the pregnant woman” is supposed to mean. U less you’re denying that there are situations where abortions are necessary to save a woman’s life??

Yes that is pretty much what I’m saying, an otherwise healthy 3rd trimester foetus doesn’t need to be killed before delivery to save a woman’s life. Why would it?

But, feotal pain is less of an issue to me than forced pregnancy.

So it's irrelevant.

Do you really care more about a very brief potential pain or a lifetime of pain for an unwanted child?

Do you think that existence trumps everything else?

We don't have a right to exist.