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To be saddened that anyone would want to take away a woman’s right to safe abortion?

1000 replies

Balayagequeen · 13/09/2025 14:48

It makes me sad and angry that there are so many people who believe that a woman’s right to a termination is up for debate/political football.

It’s always privileged men too.

No woman should be forced to continue with a pregnancy that she doesn’t want.

An abortion is a very safe, simple procedure, it’s a personal and private choice, it’s discreet, no one is ramming it down anyone else’s throat or trying to persuade others to do it. The vast majority of the time is done very early on in the pregnancy. Evidence shows that there are no long term negative physical or mental effects on the woman.

As someone who works for children’s services, there are already far too many children in the care system and they can end up deeply traumatised, and having poor outcomes in life, adoptions often don’t work out and even when they do can be extremely traumatic for both the mother and child. That is not to take away from all of the wonderful adoptive parents and foster carers, but please let’s not romanticise it.

Most adoptions are because the birth parents are unable to care for the child, not because the mother willingly gave the baby up. Therefore to force a woman to give birth would potentially be the worse option for the woman, the child and any existing siblings. It isn’t a fairytale ending where a woman willingly gives up her baby to a loving couple to live happily ever after.

There are babies conceived in poverty, domestic abuse, rape, teenage pregnancies, older age pregnancies. These women should not be forced to give birth, it is not the better option for anyone.

If abortion was ever restricted in the western world then I have no doubt that it would result in unsafe illegal abortions, risking the woman’s life.

Women take all the risk with pregnancy and childbirth. They take an enormous toll on a woman body, her mental health, her life outcomes. We are not living in the dark ages, women deserve the choice.

What right does any privileged male who has probably never experienced any of these things and has probably done very little child rearing, who can never conceive or give birth, have to try to restrict a women’s access to abortion?

Are they themselves going to care for the babies born? Or will they expect that someone else will do it?

OP posts:
Firefly1987 · 14/09/2025 00:40

I really wish the fundamentalist Christians would stay out of other people's business. It's the same with the assisted dying debate (looking at you Baroness May) this country affords you the right to practice your religion freely, not to use it as a way to exert control on others! You don't want an abortion? You're free to not have one. Don't want assisted dying? Also free to choose to suffer in agony til the bitter end. You don't have the right to take choice away from others.

TheArtfulNavyDreamer · 14/09/2025 00:44

I’m pro choice but acknowledge an element of that is because I would want the choice so inherently selfish rather than being fully 100% comfortable that life doesn’t begin at conception. I don’t judge anyone for their opinion on it. I understand both sides.

BlueOceanFish · 14/09/2025 00:44

It chills me to the bone that we’re even having this discussion.

I think we’ve become to used to not knowing what deviation would occur if abortion was not legal.

I fear for my daughter that these conversations are even being had.

SereneHazelAnt · 14/09/2025 00:44

Firefly1987 · 14/09/2025 00:40

I really wish the fundamentalist Christians would stay out of other people's business. It's the same with the assisted dying debate (looking at you Baroness May) this country affords you the right to practice your religion freely, not to use it as a way to exert control on others! You don't want an abortion? You're free to not have one. Don't want assisted dying? Also free to choose to suffer in agony til the bitter end. You don't have the right to take choice away from others.

Lots of non religious people, don't agree with abortions.

No Muslim agrees with abortion.

WishinAndHopin · 14/09/2025 00:45

Maltipoo · 13/09/2025 22:45

They don't have rights because they don't need them. Throughout most of the pregnancy they are completely unable to experience harm. Rights are about preventing harm and harm is a lived experience, not an abstract concept. If you want to make an argument for rights late in pregnancy (when abortions are vanishingly rare) that at least would make some sense, though there is still the matter of whose rights should come first to be debated.

Don't be ridiculous. of course fetuses can be harmed - which is why you shouldn't drink during pregnancy.

A reminder that the act of killing something is to do so much damage to its body that it can no longer live.

12 week fetus can be woken during scans by jiggling their mum's belly, or the mum wriggling around. This is the age that mums start to feel them kicking.

Surgeries performed on or around fetuses as young as 18 weeks old require them to be anesthetized.

But apparently they're not sentient. Just like newborn babies were thought to not be sentient until a few decades ago; their obvious suffering during painful procedures was dismissed as a "reflex".

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 14/09/2025 00:45

ProfessionalPirate · 14/09/2025 00:11

You’re the one not fully aware, as at 38 weeks gestation the foetus would almost certainly be delivered alive in the event of the mother’s life being at risk, not aborted.

I haven’t read all of your posts but in your replies to me you stated that a 38 week gestation foetus ‘wasn’t alive’ and were pretty militant about the woman’s life and body being the only thing that matters. You must be pretty new to mumsnet abortion threads if you don’t realise there are plenty people out there who think all abortion restrictions should be lifted.

Anyway, i don’t know whether it’s tiredness or drink but your posts seem to be getting increasingly incoherent so i think its time I called it a night 👍

You’re the one not fully aware, as at 38 weeks gestation the foetus would almost certainly be delivered alive in the event of the mother’s life being at risk, not aborted.

Thats not an abortion that’s a baby born at 38 weeks? Or have you fallen for the pro life nonsense marketed to simpletons that aborted babies are born alive?? They’re not.Do some proper research and stop embarrassing yourself.

All abortions at 38 weeks in the U.K. (so rare the numbers are negligible) are a result of the mother’s life being at risk and her making the unimaginable but utterly necessary decision to save her life. The baby would be aborted, not “born alive” in order to save the woman and this poor woman who’s had that awful decision and will be mourning a dead child has to give birth to a stillborn.

You’ve said these women are “baby killers for sure”. Fucking disgusting, rancid viewpoint. I hope you don’t ever work with women.

stated that a 38 week gestation foetus ‘wasn’t alive

No I didnt. Stop making things up..

were pretty militant about the woman’s life and body being the only thing that matters

I said she matters more. Which she does

Youre a despicable human for your comments, not to mention your propensity to make things up is quite alarming. But if you wanna pretend I’m the problem (when you say women experiencing heartbreaking stillborns are baby killers) then crack on and delude yourself.

Bbq1 · 14/09/2025 00:46

Vaguelyclassical · 14/09/2025 00:16

Contraception would not even be expected to be needed by, never mind available to, a 12 year old who is raped by a male relative or a predator.
No child should be forced to give birth to a child. No rape victim should be forced to go through pregnancy and bear her assailant's child. No victim of incest should be obliged to bear a child under those circumstances.

And that is my own moral position.

I knew I would be countered with an argument about rape and incest which is why I made the point that the MAJORITY of women have,
access to contraception to prevent unwanted pregnancies. It's pretty obvious that the MAJORITY of women having abortions are not victims of either rape or incest. Again, the majority.

ArmySurplusHamster · 14/09/2025 00:46

Plenty of men fail to pay for their children now. You must see that, right? No (legal) terminations would just result in more children living in poverty. Oh, and more dead women. Not a vast difference in the rate of excision of the vas deferens.

WishinAndHopin · 14/09/2025 00:47

Firefly1987 · 14/09/2025 00:40

I really wish the fundamentalist Christians would stay out of other people's business. It's the same with the assisted dying debate (looking at you Baroness May) this country affords you the right to practice your religion freely, not to use it as a way to exert control on others! You don't want an abortion? You're free to not have one. Don't want assisted dying? Also free to choose to suffer in agony til the bitter end. You don't have the right to take choice away from others.

Actually everyone has a right to an opinion, whether you like it or not.

The opposition to abortion and euthanasia is far more complex than simply certain Christian sects forbidding them.

Spike666 · 14/09/2025 00:48

I'm a lover not a fighter, but the anti-abortion crew make me very angry.

I've had more than one abortion and never felt anything but relief.

And it's very easy to judge, but lots of women play fast and loose with contraception. We all know that.

Thankfully we have options.

Firefly1987 · 14/09/2025 00:48

SereneHazelAnt · 14/09/2025 00:44

Lots of non religious people, don't agree with abortions.

No Muslim agrees with abortion.

For other people or themselves only? I assume anyone non religious has more valid arguments than "it's immoral because god says so" which I can at least respect. Though they still don't get a say in what other women do.

XenoBitch · 14/09/2025 00:49

WishinAndHopin · 14/09/2025 00:45

Don't be ridiculous. of course fetuses can be harmed - which is why you shouldn't drink during pregnancy.

A reminder that the act of killing something is to do so much damage to its body that it can no longer live.

12 week fetus can be woken during scans by jiggling their mum's belly, or the mum wriggling around. This is the age that mums start to feel them kicking.

Surgeries performed on or around fetuses as young as 18 weeks old require them to be anesthetized.

But apparently they're not sentient. Just like newborn babies were thought to not be sentient until a few decades ago; their obvious suffering during painful procedures was dismissed as a "reflex".

It is not illegal to drink during pregnancy.

Foetuses are anesthetised so they don't move. Same as born people of all ages.

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 14/09/2025 00:49

ProfessionalPirate · 14/09/2025 00:20

You really don’t understand the concept of a hypothetical situation do you? 🤦🏻‍♀️ We are DEBATING what would happen if the law changed one way or the other.

A 38 weeks pregnant woman whose life was at risk would seek an urgent delivery, not an abortion. Do you not understand the difference or something?

YOU said women who have abortions at 38 weeks are “baby killers for sure”.

You press to “know the law” so know these women are only doing so for medical reasons.

Disgusting, this is why pro life people do not value human life.

We are DEBATING what would happen if the law changed one way or the other.

Are we? You’re not. You’re just wanging on a out baby killing and making things up about what posters have said.

Go on then - what would happen to women if there was a law change? Would they just “use contraception” and all would be fine?

WishinAndHopin · 14/09/2025 00:50

Bbq1 · 14/09/2025 00:46

I knew I would be countered with an argument about rape and incest which is why I made the point that the MAJORITY of women have,
access to contraception to prevent unwanted pregnancies. It's pretty obvious that the MAJORITY of women having abortions are not victims of either rape or incest. Again, the majority.

They have to resort to the most extreme of situations to justify killing unborn humans en masse as a form of contraception.

In the case of CSA, abortions can be forced on young girls to hide the irrefutable evidence of rape. What do pro-aborts think of this?

Watchingyouanna · 14/09/2025 00:50

I would love to live in a world when the only reason for a women to have an abortion is because she doesn't want a baby. Alot of women have abortions due to lack of choice. Money, work lack of support etc I see it on here all the time. A women posts she has lack of space or money for a baby and posters will tell her to have a abortion due to it. Even when she doesn't want one. I had no choice to abort a baby I wanted but couldn't afford. Anyone who things that's ok isn't pro choice

SereneHazelAnt · 14/09/2025 00:50

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 14/09/2025 00:49

YOU said women who have abortions at 38 weeks are “baby killers for sure”.

You press to “know the law” so know these women are only doing so for medical reasons.

Disgusting, this is why pro life people do not value human life.

We are DEBATING what would happen if the law changed one way or the other.

Are we? You’re not. You’re just wanging on a out baby killing and making things up about what posters have said.

Go on then - what would happen to women if there was a law change? Would they just “use contraception” and all would be fine?

What medical reasons? If the baby is 38 weeks than you don't need to abort the baby, do you.

Spike666 · 14/09/2025 00:50

WishinAndHopin · 14/09/2025 00:50

They have to resort to the most extreme of situations to justify killing unborn humans en masse as a form of contraception.

In the case of CSA, abortions can be forced on young girls to hide the irrefutable evidence of rape. What do pro-aborts think of this?

I think that men should stop raping women.

What do you think?

SereneHazelAnt · 14/09/2025 00:50

Watchingyouanna · 14/09/2025 00:50

I would love to live in a world when the only reason for a women to have an abortion is because she doesn't want a baby. Alot of women have abortions due to lack of choice. Money, work lack of support etc I see it on here all the time. A women posts she has lack of space or money for a baby and posters will tell her to have a abortion due to it. Even when she doesn't want one. I had no choice to abort a baby I wanted but couldn't afford. Anyone who things that's ok isn't pro choice

Plenty of choice.

The choice not to have sex.

Cut men of from sex and they will soon step up

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 14/09/2025 00:51

OutsideLookingOut · 14/09/2025 00:27

Agree completely with you. Growing up in poverty can be miserable. I really question the intentions of those that would change policies to bring more children into poverty. However I do not believe that life is the ultimate gift. I think it is kinder not to bring children into bad situations and kinder still to assist the children we have already in poverty.

I agree with you. Imagine adding so many children to the care system and into poverty, not to mention hundreds of thousands of traumatised women, all because apparently life is the greatest gift of all and even those destined to have a shit life should just be half they were born.

SereneHazelAnt · 14/09/2025 00:52

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 14/09/2025 00:51

I agree with you. Imagine adding so many children to the care system and into poverty, not to mention hundreds of thousands of traumatised women, all because apparently life is the greatest gift of all and even those destined to have a shit life should just be half they were born.

Not going to happen .

Women just wouldn't have sex

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 14/09/2025 00:52

SereneHazelAnt · 14/09/2025 00:30

Just don't have sex if you don't want children

OMG you have solved the abortion crisis! This will stop all abortions forever more! How do we spread the word??

WishinAndHopin · 14/09/2025 00:53

XenoBitch · 14/09/2025 00:49

It is not illegal to drink during pregnancy.

Foetuses are anesthetised so they don't move. Same as born people of all ages.

And why would surgery cause them to move? Why is local anesthesia indicated for some procedures, rather than those that cause muscle paralysis? Why have you ignored other evidence of sentience?

Pretending that fetuses have no sentience is pro-abort propaganda.

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 14/09/2025 00:53

SereneHazelAnt · 14/09/2025 00:30

Because of abortions.

If you remove that men will be getting the snip

Will they fuck.

Theyll just dodge child support and consoling they were “trapped”

SereneHazelAnt · 14/09/2025 00:53

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 14/09/2025 00:52

OMG you have solved the abortion crisis! This will stop all abortions forever more! How do we spread the word??

By women being responsible for their actions.

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 14/09/2025 00:54

SereneHazelAnt · 14/09/2025 00:37

Children are a consequence

They shouldn’t be. And They don’t have to be.

They should be a wanted life cho ie, not a consequence like some sort of lifelong detention for women

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