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To be saddened that anyone would want to take away a woman’s right to safe abortion?

1000 replies

Balayagequeen · 13/09/2025 14:48

It makes me sad and angry that there are so many people who believe that a woman’s right to a termination is up for debate/political football.

It’s always privileged men too.

No woman should be forced to continue with a pregnancy that she doesn’t want.

An abortion is a very safe, simple procedure, it’s a personal and private choice, it’s discreet, no one is ramming it down anyone else’s throat or trying to persuade others to do it. The vast majority of the time is done very early on in the pregnancy. Evidence shows that there are no long term negative physical or mental effects on the woman.

As someone who works for children’s services, there are already far too many children in the care system and they can end up deeply traumatised, and having poor outcomes in life, adoptions often don’t work out and even when they do can be extremely traumatic for both the mother and child. That is not to take away from all of the wonderful adoptive parents and foster carers, but please let’s not romanticise it.

Most adoptions are because the birth parents are unable to care for the child, not because the mother willingly gave the baby up. Therefore to force a woman to give birth would potentially be the worse option for the woman, the child and any existing siblings. It isn’t a fairytale ending where a woman willingly gives up her baby to a loving couple to live happily ever after.

There are babies conceived in poverty, domestic abuse, rape, teenage pregnancies, older age pregnancies. These women should not be forced to give birth, it is not the better option for anyone.

If abortion was ever restricted in the western world then I have no doubt that it would result in unsafe illegal abortions, risking the woman’s life.

Women take all the risk with pregnancy and childbirth. They take an enormous toll on a woman body, her mental health, her life outcomes. We are not living in the dark ages, women deserve the choice.

What right does any privileged male who has probably never experienced any of these things and has probably done very little child rearing, who can never conceive or give birth, have to try to restrict a women’s access to abortion?

Are they themselves going to care for the babies born? Or will they expect that someone else will do it?

OP posts:
LayerCakeOfStrangers · 13/09/2025 22:58

WishinAndHopin · 13/09/2025 22:42

A human fetus is the only "parasite" that its host chooses to implant in their body through their own actions.

(Rape excepted - 1% of abortions)

So what?
An accident means women should be effected no matter what for the rest of their lives?
Where are you getting your statistics from?

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 13/09/2025 22:59

RedSkyatNight25 · 13/09/2025 22:42

Gaza, Ukraine, Charlie Kirk, poverty, the cost of living crisis, homelessness, women being killed by their partners, child abuse, neglect of children and vulnerable people, I could go on and on. Does it impact me? No, not really. Is it abhorrent, yes.

Except all of those impact everyone. Not just one person.

RedSkyatNight25 · 13/09/2025 22:59

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 13/09/2025 22:54

I’m not struggling, I’d just like my questions answered. I don’t know why people can’t answer them.

Theres no room for grey areas in law.

As a solicitor. I can assure you if there was no room for grey areas I’d be out of a job, interpreting and applying principles derived from case law and what you think that meant because statute allows a whole range of grey is my job.

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 13/09/2025 23:00

Ratafia · 13/09/2025 22:43

Are you against any abortion in any circumstances, including for children who have been raped, women for whom pregnancies wlll impose severe risks, or cases where you know the baby will only live a short life filled with unbearable pain? If so, could you explain why?

They wont

They never do

Thry just pop on tell us all they’re anti abortion and scarper. I’m wondering if they want a medal?

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 13/09/2025 23:01

traumasuffererrelationships · 13/09/2025 22:46

I’m pro choice BUT I’m also pro accurate and factual information and not derogatory language about an embryo/fetus. I will be making sure my daughters are well informed of the facts around embryo and fetus development, that they are aware of their choices and aware of what the procedures involve if they need to make a choice. They will have my full support whatever they choose if they are in that situation but I think it is wrong to use negative and misleading language such as ‘parasite’ and ‘just a clump of cells’ . We need to be factual and respectful of all aspects of abortion , ultimately a woman gets to choose but we should be confident in that and not have to resort to dehumanising an embryo or fetus to justify an action.

Babies are parasites though?

Why does this upset people? It’s a pretty accurate description

What procedures involved? What do you mean?

RedSkyatNight25 · 13/09/2025 23:01

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 13/09/2025 22:59

Except all of those impact everyone. Not just one person.

It doesn’t impact me at all?

Why is the value of life only important because of who it impacts? If someone is stowed away and abused in secret, or a mother kills a newborn without anyone having prior knowledge of the pregnancy or birth is that ok? Because the impact doesn’t extend to others? Is the value of life measured by the value other people place on it?

shuggles · 13/09/2025 23:02

@Balayagequeen What right does any privileged male who has probably never experienced any of these things and has probably done very little child rearing, who can never conceive or give birth, have to try to restrict a women’s access to abortion?

Opposition to abortion from men in recent years is probably linked to the manosphere and Christian influencers such as Charlie Kirk, though I'm puzzled as to why no one seems to acknowledge that historically, opposition to abortion generally came from women. Even just 10 years ago, there was plenty of evidence to show that women were more opposed to abortion, while men had generally relaxed and liberal attitudes: https://www.theguardian.com/science/the-lay-scientist/2014/apr/30/why-are-women-more-opposed-to-abortion

It would make sense that men would be more supportive of abortion, given that they don't have to undergo the procedure and it's of direct benefit to men, allowing them to have casual sexual partners without consequence.

Why are women more opposed to abortion? | Martin Robbins

Martin Robbins: Polls in recent years show that men support more liberal abortion laws than women – even among Catholics. Are they accurate, and if so what could explain the counterintuitive gender divide?

https://www.theguardian.com/science/the-lay-scientist/2014/apr/30/why-are-women-more-opposed-to-abortion

Itmakesme · 13/09/2025 23:02

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 13/09/2025 22:13

We’ll because one is a living baby and the other isn’t.

I feel quite embarrassed for people to have to continue to explain the difference between a fetus and a newborn.

Having baby killers (which women seeking abortions are not) in society is everybody’s business

A sister of mine delivered one twin early at 30 weeks. The other continued in utero until 34 weeks. You’re making me laugh thinking it was ok to whack the other one since it stayed in the womb by her choice. (Could have had a c-section for both)

EmeraldShamrock000 · 13/09/2025 23:02

Her body, her choice.
Late abortion is rare, unless for medical purposes.

TheSwarm · 13/09/2025 23:03

WishinAndHopin · 13/09/2025 22:42

A human fetus is the only "parasite" that its host chooses to implant in their body through their own actions.

(Rape excepted - 1% of abortions)

So, if a fetus is there through choice, why can it not be the choice of the person who put it there whether they carry it through to term or not?

Because, it has to be someone's choice. If it's not the woman herself, doesn't it? If it's not her choice, should it be the choice of a religion she doesn't believe in, or a politician, or a a lawyer perhaps?

You see how ridiculous that is, to remove that choice from the actual woman who actually has to actually go through with the pregnancy and everything that comes after it and give it to some random stranger who will play no role in whatever future the woman and that bunch of cells developing in side her have?

RitaFromThePitCanteen · 13/09/2025 23:04

I think anti-abortionists need to understand that they are perfectly entitled to find certain topics abhorrent or immoral, but that just because something elicits a strong emotional reaction in you doesn't mean it should be enshrined in law.

Some people still don't agree with same-sex marriage because they find the thought of being in a relationship with someone of the same sex unpleasant. The answer to that is that they don't marry someone of the same-sex. Not that same-sex marriage should be made illegal.

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 13/09/2025 23:04

RedSkyatNight25 · 13/09/2025 22:51

The death of a baby the day before its birth will impact others, will a still born not impact others? What is the difference between a baby who dies pre birth and post birth in terms of the impact to others? What if the last sign of life is whilst baby is halfway in, halfway out? Life and death is not purely semantics.

The death of a WNATED baby will impact others.

The “death” of an unwanted “baby” affects precisely one person.

Thats the difference. Because the woman is the only relevant person in deciding if a baby is wanted or not.

Yoy anti choice people seem to think there is a magical line somewhere - and forget that actually it’s all down to the woman who you don’t give a shit about

Maltipoo · 13/09/2025 23:05

Here's a thought experiment for the forced birthers.
Name one situation in life where anyone believes it is reasonable to force others to risk their health and/or their life in order to save a person with a fully realized life, feelings, ideas and people dependent on him/her.
There isn't one, is there.
Yet you all are demanding women risk their health and lives to save the life of one who is not even a person, does not have feelings, ideas, goals or dependents. Every pregnancy carries with it the risk of illness and death. It matters not a whit how great the risk is (the amount is an unknown) because nobody has the right to demand others take any amount of risk to life/health.

So would you make a law demanding bystanders jump in the water to save a drowning person or rush into a house on fire to pull somebody out? No?
Then how do you have the audacity to demand women risk harm just to save a life that isn't even a person?
I know I won't get a logical answer, because there isn't one. Your position makes no sense. Face this uncomfortable reality and stop basing your beliefs on nothing but sloppy sentimentality.

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 13/09/2025 23:06

ProfessionalPirate · 13/09/2025 22:51

Where did you get that from? Plenty of evidence to demonstrate pain perception in the 3rd trimester, possibly from mid-2nd trimester too.

Abortions apart from ones that save the mother are illegal in the 3rd trimester.

So in legal abortions the fetus will not be aware or feel pain.

What is the unsafe bit?

Goodygummdrops · 13/09/2025 23:07

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 13/09/2025 22:50

I think “killing” (if that’s you wanna call it Ill humour you) is warranted if the pregnant mother wants it, regardless of the reason.

But you’ve missed my point - why is the ultimate goal to pass through the birth canal and take a breath even when it’s almost guaranteed the baby will either live in care or in poverty, or in an abusive home? What’s so great about a baby being born that you risk a horrible quality of life for them?

And yes poverty so a pretty good reason to abort a baby. Clearly you’ve never been in poverty if you think it’s a life worth living at all costs

Is it that clear? Do people never escape poverty?

Possible I may have not communicated clearly as you seem to have missed my point. Would you say that people in care or in poverty have such low quality of life that they shouldn't be alive?

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 13/09/2025 23:07

RedSkyatNight25 · 13/09/2025 22:53

What makes you the “decider?”

I’m not. Nor do I think I am.

I don’t think it’s one bit relevant, nor is it my business, why another woman chooses an abortion. I don’t want to know, and nobody has the right to know except maybe her doctor.

HuckleberryBlackcurrant · 13/09/2025 23:09

The abortion isn't safe for the baby. There is no such thing as a safe abortion, because if it succeeds, at least one person is killed.

No, we shouldn't make murder safe, as it encourages people to commit it.

Itmakesme · 13/09/2025 23:09

Thedogscollar · 13/09/2025 22:42

I'm very much pro abortion and I'm a mother, a grandmother and a midwife.
Nobody has the right to tell any woman what she can do or not do with her body.

I think the law would disagree with you. There are many things we can’t do with our bodies…

BlueFlowers5 · 13/09/2025 23:10

I think any man who has had unprotected sex with a woman, shouldn't be able to comment.

Whiteorchidpearl · 13/09/2025 23:11

I think I have the perfect solution, if a proportion of society are happy to take women's bodily autonomy away from them, then let's work on the prevention is better than cure premise.
How about making it mandatory for all men to have a vasectomy when they reach adulthood, obviously after a deposit is put in the deep freeze.
Clearly this is ridiculous, but forcing birth is much more barbaric.
To those who do not agree with abortion, how about campaigning better medical care for women, better financial support for women, better mental health support for women, better education for young girls and boys surrounding sex, relationships and consent, better support for women suffering DV, better support for women who are overwhelmed with raising disabled children, better support to ensure reckless absent father's cannot avoid paying for their children and better support for children in care, who we know have worse outcomes than those that are not. This is by no means exhaustive.

Once these issues are tackled, I'll happily have a discussion about abortion, until such time, my body, my choice. It is nobody else's business.

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 13/09/2025 23:11

Itmakesme · 13/09/2025 22:57

Well the law suggests that you are wrong and it makes the distinction that it is capable of surviving outside the womb you don’t get to murder at will. Being in the womb isn’t a defence to at will ‘host’ murder thankfully. 😅

Child destruction is the name of a statutory offence in. NI & Wales & England.

Child destruction is the crime of killing an unborn but viable foetus; that is, a child "capable of being born alive", before it has "a separate existence".[1]

People have been convicted of the offence for injuring a heavily pregnant woman in the abdomen, such that her foetus dies; for killing a foetus during childbirth; or for performing a late-term abortion.

This thread just gets more embarrassing.

Lets try this - why do you think that law doesn’t apply to abortions? Think hard, if you can.

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 13/09/2025 23:12

RedSkyatNight25 · 13/09/2025 22:59

As a solicitor. I can assure you if there was no room for grey areas I’d be out of a job, interpreting and applying principles derived from case law and what you think that meant because statute allows a whole range of grey is my job.

Yes I’m sure you are a solicitor 😂if you are then no wonder the legal system is fucked

Maltipoo · 13/09/2025 23:12

WishinAndHopin · 13/09/2025 22:42

A human fetus is the only "parasite" that its host chooses to implant in their body through their own actions.

(Rape excepted - 1% of abortions)

Irrelevant how it gets there.
Equally you could argue we choose to get head lice and pinworms by sending our kids to school, where they catch them and transmit them to us at home. Or we choose to get giardia or cryptosporidium by swimming in or drinking water we aren't 100% sure is free of them (which is every water source.)

It's a parasite, it's unwanted, it causes problems, so there is no meaningful difference to the host.

ProfessionalPirate · 13/09/2025 23:13

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 13/09/2025 22:46

I think the term “alive” is just semantics weaponised by half wits anti choice people as a poorly attempted “gotcha”. Fetus, baby, embryo - it’s all the same thing. And it doesn’t matter as much as the mother. That’s the salient point. The woman is alive, ACTUALLY living an independent life, and her life trumps that of the fetus

Actually the death of a newborn affects others. Even a few hours old, it is loved and has the expectation to live as per the mother’s choice. It also indicates a failing of some sort of a newborn unexpectedly dies. Poor mater its care matters to many people.

A woman you don’t know doing something that only affects her is nothing to die you anyone else.

I think a woman seeking an abortion (as opposed to an induction) at 38 weeks is a baby killer for sure.

Women who do this do it to save their life so your attempt at shock with the “baby killer” doesn’t wash with me - she’s more important than that baby

That’s ironic seeing as you were the one using ‘alive, not alive’ to support your argument. You’re contradicting yourself now.

A 38 week gestation foetus can be loved and have an expectation that of life, just as much as a 1 week old foetus, so that argument doesn’t wash either.

How do you know every single woman looking for a late term abortion is doing it to ‘save their life’? If there is a medical emergency, then the baby would be delivered, not aborted. If you mean ‘save their life from becoming the mother of an unwanted child’ then I’m sorry, it’s just too late for that.

Survivingnotthriving24 · 13/09/2025 23:13

I wish more prolife people would focus on supporting mothers to keep their pregnancies rather than banning abortion. Free universal health care in countries that don't have it, affordable housing/childcare, affordable healthy food, welfare systems. Care for the child in life and not solely in utero.

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