To be saddened that anyone would want to take away a woman’s right to safe abortion?

[Balayagequeen]

It makes me sad and angry that there are so many people who believe that a woman’s right to a termination is up for debate/political football.

It’s always privileged men too.

No woman should be forced to continue with a pregnancy that she doesn’t want.

An abortion is a very safe, simple procedure, it’s a personal and private choice, it’s discreet, no one is ramming it down anyone else’s throat or trying to persuade others to do it. The vast majority of the time is done very early on in the pregnancy. Evidence shows that there are no long term negative physical or mental effects on the woman.

As someone who works for children’s services, there are already far too many children in the care system and they can end up deeply traumatised, and having poor outcomes in life, adoptions often don’t work out and even when they do can be extremely traumatic for both the mother and child. That is not to take away from all of the wonderful adoptive parents and foster carers, but please let’s not romanticise it.

Most adoptions are because the birth parents are unable to care for the child, not because the mother willingly gave the baby up. Therefore to force a woman to give birth would potentially be the worse option for the woman, the child and any existing siblings. It isn’t a fairytale ending where a woman willingly gives up her baby to a loving couple to live happily ever after.

There are babies conceived in poverty, domestic abuse, rape, teenage pregnancies, older age pregnancies. These women should not be forced to give birth, it is not the better option for anyone.

If abortion was ever restricted in the western world then I have no doubt that it would result in unsafe illegal abortions, risking the woman’s life.

Women take all the risk with pregnancy and childbirth. They take an enormous toll on a woman body, her mental health, her life outcomes. We are not living in the dark ages, women deserve the choice.

What right does any privileged male who has probably never experienced any of these things and has probably done very little child rearing, who can never conceive or give birth, have to try to restrict a women’s access to abortion?

Are they themselves going to care for the babies born? Or will they expect that someone else will do it?

I am pro choice.

I do not like it when women make flippant remarks about abortion/s as Lily Allen and Miquita Oliver did recently. I find it hard to comprehend how anyone could ever be in a position to not remember how many abortions they've had - let alone joke about it.

I say this as someone who had an abortion almost 20 years ago. It still haunts me, although I made the right decision and I would do so again if I had the option to go back in time.

I think it's wrong to say that it doesn't affect men - of course it does! Psychology teaches us that (although it is common sense). It's not right that men's views and feelings are so easily dismissed in one swooping statement.

Since when does something have to personally affect you to take a stand in any case? Sounds like hypocrisy to me.

We are all allowed our views and opinions. These topics should be up for discussion without fear of retaliation.

A human fetus is the only "parasite" that its host chooses to implant in their body through their own actions.

(Rape excepted - 1% of abortions)

I'm very much pro abortion and I'm a mother, a grandmother and a midwife.
Nobody has the right to tell any woman what she can do or not do with her body.

I’m not.

What is the unsafe part?

A fetus is not aware. Thats scientifically proven. Nor does it feel pain or harm. Someone posted a link upthread explaining it.

So what is unsafe?

Gaza, Ukraine, Charlie Kirk, poverty, the cost of living crisis, homelessness, women being killed by their partners, child abuse, neglect of children and vulnerable people, I could go on and on. Does it impact me? No, not really. Is it abhorrent, yes.

Are you against any abortion in any circumstances, including for children who have been raped, women for whom pregnancies wlll impose severe risks, or cases where you know the baby will only live a short life filled with unbearable pain? If so, could you explain why?

They don't have rights because they don't need them. Throughout most of the pregnancy they are completely unable to experience harm. Rights are about preventing harm and harm is a lived experience, not an abstract concept. If you want to make an argument for rights late in pregnancy (when abortions are vanishingly rare) that at least would make some sense, though there is still the matter of whose rights should come first to be debated.

I’m pro choice BUT I’m also pro accurate and factual information and not derogatory language about an embryo/fetus. I will be making sure my daughters are well informed of the facts around embryo and fetus development, that they are aware of their choices and aware of what the procedures involve if they need to make a choice. They will have my full support whatever they choose if they are in that situation but I think it is wrong to use negative and misleading language such as ‘parasite’ and ‘just a clump of cells’ . We need to be factual and respectful of all aspects of abortion , ultimately a woman gets to choose but we should be confident in that and not have to resort to dehumanising an embryo or fetus to justify an action.

I think the term “alive” is just semantics weaponised by half wits anti choice people as a poorly attempted “gotcha”. Fetus, baby, embryo - it’s all the same thing. And it doesn’t matter as much as the mother. That’s the salient point. The woman is alive, ACTUALLY living an independent life, and her life trumps that of the fetus

Actually the death of a newborn affects others. Even a few hours old, it is loved and has the expectation to live as per the mother’s choice. It also indicates a failing of some sort of a newborn unexpectedly dies. Poor mater its care matters to many people.

A woman you don’t know doing something that only affects her is nothing to die you anyone else.

I think a woman seeking an abortion (as opposed to an induction) at 38 weeks is a baby killer for sure.

Women who do this do it to save their life so your attempt at shock with the “baby killer” doesn’t wash with me - she’s more important than that baby

I’m pro life. I think more women should take far more responsibility for their their contraception. I read on here a lot that a poster has had sex and shock horror they are pregnant!!! What do I do??? Maybe look after yourself and don’t treat an abortion like contraception?

But I’m entitled to my opinion. I would never protest or say abortions shouldn’t be accessible.

I will judge though. That’s as bad as it gets.

Yes life begins at conception for pro life proponents. So they are children.

Everyone falls on a spectrum.

Pro-life - these day 1 embryos of two cells are a baby.

Pro-choice - fetus is 39 weeks but Mum can still kill baby no worries.

99% of people are somewhere between those two ideas. That’s their personal opinion.

Logically pro-life means - life begins at conception- and pro-choice means - if it’s in the body of another person - the ‘host’ gets to kill the ‘fetus’ as they see fit.

Anyone else on the ‘when is it ok to kill’ spectrum has their own personal preference based on their own biases but it’s not a logical argument.

Perhaps you should delete your erroneous, misleading post?

I think “killing” (if that’s you wanna call it Ill humour you) is warranted if the pregnant mother wants it, regardless of the reason.

But you’ve missed my point - why is the ultimate goal to pass through the birth canal and take a breath even when it’s almost guaranteed the baby will either live in care or in poverty, or in an abusive home? What’s so great about a baby being born that you risk a horrible quality of life for them?

And yes poverty so a pretty good reason to abort a baby. Clearly you’ve never been in poverty if you think it’s a life worth living at all costs

The death of a baby the day before its birth will impact others, will a still born not impact others? What is the difference between a baby who dies pre birth and post birth in terms of the impact to others? What if the last sign of life is whilst baby is halfway in, halfway out? Life and death is not purely semantics.

Where did you get that from? Plenty of evidence to demonstrate pain perception in the 3rd trimester, possibly from mid-2nd trimester too.

Yes a baby is a parasite. This doesn’t support me, because I’m not a Victorian maiden who needs her smelling salts. it’s a pretty good description

Is your child dependent on inhabiting your body?

But if a ‘host’ decides to end the life of the ‘parasite’ inside the womb rather than outside the womb then there’s a difference??

The womb bit. Obvs

It why do you think you or indeed anyone bar a doctor, is entitled to a woman’s reason? What makes you the decider of what is right and what isn’t?

Not entirely accurate:

Child destruction is the name of a statutoryoffence in England and Wales, Northern Ireland.

Child destruction is the crime of killing an unborn but viable foetus; that is, a child "capable of being born alive", before it has "a separate existence".[1]

People have been convicted of the offence for injuring a heavily pregnant woman in the abdomen, such that her foetus dies; for killing a foetus during childbirth; or for performing a late-term abortion.

What makes you the “decider?”

I’m not struggling, I’d just like my questions answered. I don’t know why people can’t answer them.

Theres no room for grey areas in law.

It's not particularly disgusting, but it is inaccurate. Babies aren't parasites. Parasites only take, they tend to harm the 'host' and it is a non-mutual relationship.

Babies share cells, which help the pregnant mother through a process called fetal microchimerism, where fetal cells migrate to and repair damaged maternal tissues, such as the heart or brain, after pregnancy. These cells act like stem cells, differentiating into specialized maternal cell types to aid in healing and potentially strengthen the mother's immune system for future pregnancies.

I can understand that some people are anti abortion (I’m pro choice). If you are religious and your religion bans that act then it stands to reason you would be anti abortion. If you happen to be in charge of the laws of a country you will probably also ban abortion. Most theocracies ban abortions or effectively do so. Eg on Gaza you are only allowed an abortion if the mothers life is in danger AMD the religious leaders give you special permission.

If Britain turns into a Theocracy abortion will be least of our worries as women.

Unfortunately we are seeing a situation where we are about to see a face off of Christianity v Islam across a lot of the West. This is a very complex junction in western civilisations history and too many people are plonking their heads in the sands of the desert of Naivety. One thing is for certain women are not going to be the winners

Because it doesn’t affect me if another woman has an abortion. Nor does it affect you. Why would you take a stand against something that has literally zero bearing on you.

Ablrtions don’t affect me because they can’t have them. They can have feelings about them but it’s nothing to do with women who have them.

And I don’t personally think women should only talk about abortions in apologetic or grovelling terms. Lily Allen’s admission was weird but she only speaks for herself, and she is a bit weird anyway.

Well the law suggests that you are wrong and it makes the distinction that it is capable of surviving outside the womb you don’t get to murder at will. Being in the womb isn’t a defence to at will ‘host’ murder thankfully. 😅

Child destruction is the name of a statutory offence in. NI & Wales & England.

Child destruction is the crime of killing an unborn but viable foetus; that is, a child "capable of being born alive", before it has "a separate existence".[1]

People have been convicted of the offence for injuring a heavily pregnant woman in the abdomen, such that her foetus dies; for killing a foetus during childbirth; or for performing a late-term abortion.

No, I wouldn't. As I said, I think there should be an option for safe abortion. I do think it would be morally wrong for a woman to have an abortion just because she doesn't want a baby but I wouldn't want it to be illegal because I'm aware of the potential complications.