To be saddened that anyone would want to take away a woman’s right to safe abortion?

[Balayagequeen]

It makes me sad and angry that there are so many people who believe that a woman’s right to a termination is up for debate/political football.

It’s always privileged men too.

No woman should be forced to continue with a pregnancy that she doesn’t want.

An abortion is a very safe, simple procedure, it’s a personal and private choice, it’s discreet, no one is ramming it down anyone else’s throat or trying to persuade others to do it. The vast majority of the time is done very early on in the pregnancy. Evidence shows that there are no long term negative physical or mental effects on the woman.

As someone who works for children’s services, there are already far too many children in the care system and they can end up deeply traumatised, and having poor outcomes in life, adoptions often don’t work out and even when they do can be extremely traumatic for both the mother and child. That is not to take away from all of the wonderful adoptive parents and foster carers, but please let’s not romanticise it.

Most adoptions are because the birth parents are unable to care for the child, not because the mother willingly gave the baby up. Therefore to force a woman to give birth would potentially be the worse option for the woman, the child and any existing siblings. It isn’t a fairytale ending where a woman willingly gives up her baby to a loving couple to live happily ever after.

There are babies conceived in poverty, domestic abuse, rape, teenage pregnancies, older age pregnancies. These women should not be forced to give birth, it is not the better option for anyone.

If abortion was ever restricted in the western world then I have no doubt that it would result in unsafe illegal abortions, risking the woman’s life.

Women take all the risk with pregnancy and childbirth. They take an enormous toll on a woman body, her mental health, her life outcomes. We are not living in the dark ages, women deserve the choice.

What right does any privileged male who has probably never experienced any of these things and has probably done very little child rearing, who can never conceive or give birth, have to try to restrict a women’s access to abortion?

Are they themselves going to care for the babies born? Or will they expect that someone else will do it?

And why wasn’t she granted an abortion?

Actually the anti choice crowd are happy for people like Saavita to die. I don’t know why (I have asked and have had no takers) but they are

In my opinion, morning after pills and abortion up to 6 - 8 weeks should be completely unrestricted, because there is no functional way of determining (e.g.) who has been raped, who is in a domestic violence relationship, or other times of genuine need.

This covers anybody who did or didn't use adequate contraception, simply because there's no way of separating people who justifiably need abortion vs those of convenience.

However, there should be no pretense that ending a human life is morally neutral, or that the unique, irreplaceable life doesn't exist.

Later abortions should only be for when the mother's life is at risk, or the baby will truly have no quality of life. Not just for things like Klinefelter's syndrome, or achondroplasia, which have ~50% abortion rates despite people with these conditions being able to lead full lives.

No contraception is 100% effective and you aren't going to be taking the MAP if you are on contraception which has failed, are you.

Which is besides the point. People aren't perfect. People sometimes make bad decisions, get drunk and get pregnant by accident. Sometimes even people just change their minds.

The punishment to that should never be the removal of bodily autonomy by restricting access to a perfectly safe medical procedure to abort a potential child that the woman in question does not want - because there is so much fucking wrong with that idea it's hard to know where to start.

The only argument pro-lifers have is this vague, fuzzy idea that life is sacred and that by restricting access to abortion you suddenly make it all ok.

But it's not, really, is it, and you don't, do you. I'll repeat that figure from earlier - 68,000 women. Dead. Due to unsafe abortion. How can that not make you fucking angry? That many women who did not need to die, because pro-lifer fucking nutters thought that their ideology was more important than the actual fucking life of an actual fucking person.

If you spend any time in this world you quickly realise that life isn't sacred and actually, aborting a life at a few weeks before it has any idea of what it is, before it can feel pain or before it has any conciousness at all is by far the better solution than forcing a woman to give birth and then having one more unwanted child existing on an overpopulated and uncaring planet.

In England and Wales if you shoot a woman who is carrying unborn twins and they all die, it is one murder. I'll make the point again, the law does not recognise a baby until it's delivered. Some of these arguments are utterly ridiculous.

I can't believe that in 2025 some women (I presume) think they should be able to dictate another woman's choices. It's regressive, callous, and totally lacking in compassion- and it's usually the god squad saying it.

I don't think anyone can take seriously a person thinking there's some god out there watching us - it's more likely aliens . . .

Agreed , his comment was outrageous. Let’s hope we don’t end up with a government with such views. Women need to be able to make this terrible choice.
I do wonder if the cut off is right in this country.. Perhaps it should be slightly less than the 24 weeks that’s allowed. I know there are some terrible extreme situations though including young girls terrified and unable to act through fear .
Also I think there should be more support & a safety net for pregnant women whatever they need to do.
Including for those want to keep the baby being reassured they will get the help they need. Our country seems too poor though.

anti abortion is regression and pro abortion is progression

No, as her baby was dying anyway.

In a situation where the baby wasn’t dying anyway, it’s a really impossible choice as to who should live and who should die.

Some would put the baby first as it’s younger and has more life to lose, but the mum dying has more outward consequences, more grief caused overall. Also the baby probably has higher risk of not making it through anyway, especially if it’s not full term yet. I don’t know the correct moral answer but if I was a doctor and the mum was asking to be saved I can’t imagine going against this.

Your last paragraph - really weird way of looking at it. A new mother could murder her 1 week old baby and it wouldn’t affect you any more than if she aborted at 38 weeks gestation but I’m guessing you’d be opposed to the former action?

There has to be a cut off.

It may seem ridiculous but that’s how laws work

It’s also ridiculous that a person who is 16 and 1 day would be committing a crime having sex with someone 2 days younger than them. But that’s the cut off. What else do you suggest? Laws cannot be arbitrary. They HAVE to be “black and white thinking”

And actually you’re wrong about having an abortion at 40 weeks, I’m not sure you fully understand abortion laws

Yes so that is wild. The until viability point is mad when it comes to ‘choice’ abortions. That probably is part of the issue in America.

I am fully pro choice. As early as possible, as late as necessary. But I don’t think a choice abortion past viability fits ‘necessary’. So that’s not a contradiction in my eyes.

The law works well in this country. It should be left well alone.

So don't have a late abortion then.

I had a baby at 23 weeks and 5 days and it hasn't changed my opinion on abortion. It is basically none of my business what other people choose to do. Also a "perfect" outcome for a 23 week baby is seriously uncommon. My baby was left functionally blind and despite surviving against the odds initially - died unexpectedly at 9 months.

I've never experienced any of those things. I'm pro choice. I've never had an abortion. When I was a teenager, still at school, I had a momentary panic over being 2 days late. Had I been pregnant there was no question- I would have had an abortion.

No someone else killing a baby in utero is not OK because that person is not the woman carrying it. They’re taking the choice away from that woman. Only the woman should have the legal choice over wether she continues to carry a pregnancy.

You are not pro choice. I laughed because you claiming so is funny

Can you answer my ultimate goal question please?

Also a baby was killed

Being anti abortion and seeking to restrict all abortion in any circumstances is a deeply deeply misogynistic stance to take.

The mothers life and her bodily autonomy should always always take precedence over that of the embryo or feutus. I do not say that lightly, I really don't but humans have a type of reproduction process that means we have to be pragmatic about what pregnancy means, given how women will be treated otherwise..

My view is that a woman should have complete control over what choices she makes about her body while she is pregnant. Otherwise history (and many countries nowaday) clearly and repeatedly show how women are treated if their main value is as vessels for having children.

Well yes they do. They want a fetus to be legally equal to her. It’s WHY she died FFS.

We don’t end lives to save lies in the U.K. if you consider actually life and a fetus equal, you can’t save dying pregnant women who’s babies haven’t completely miscarried yet.

OP Yanbu, I agree with you 100%.

The people who would restrict and criminalise abortion make me incandescently angry, especially men.

I have always been pro-choice. It has always incensed me that someone who is not me, not living my life, and is not my body, would want to dictate what I do with it.
When you think about it, it is pretty sick really.

If you don't like abortion then don't have one.

No the trauma of rape isn’t going to be made better but it wouldn’t be limited to that would it?. You can add on the trauma of giving birth (however it’s done) and then the lifelong sentence of knowing you having a child out there, presumably adopted….

Men do not get to have an say on abortion other than supporting a woman's individual choice.

They just don't. The sooner pro-life men just gtf, the better.

I never said I wanted to remove women’s choices. In fact I said I am pro-choice.

Also, as far as I am aware, if someone administered a morning after pill to a pregnant woman without her consent then they would have committed a crime. So it’s not as simple as you’re saying. Of course the mother would be unharmed in this instance.

Anyway all I said was I am not willing to agree that only the would-be mother is affected. If that were true we could all go around killing people as long as they have no friends or relatives and it wouldn’t matter.

I also never said anything about anyone watching from the sky. I think I am going to stop engaging in this argument as it just seems nobody is capable of engaging without trying to make others look stupid instead of actually challenging the argument.

100% agree with you.

As early as possible but as late as necessary.

In a situation where the baby wasn’t dying anyway, it’s a really impossible choice as to who should live and who should die.

Are you really saying that if the situation were the mother's life was at the risk if the pregnancy continued but the baby's isn't at risk that there's a quandary?

If so, that's vile- of course the woman should take priority.

Yes, parasite. Again don’t get too bogged down in semantics. It’s not a bad thing, it’s just a description. Host is also a good description

What did you think a fetus was, a unicorn feeding off candyfloss?

A doctor actually referred to my baby as a parasite. I had really bad norovirus I wasn’t overcoming and got admitted to hospital. I was told my baby was effectively a parasite taking all the goodness away so my body was struggling to recover. It made sense and I wasn’t offended because I’m not an over sensitive melt who think fetuses should always be referred to in fluffy terms.

Such as?