To be saddened that anyone would want to take away a woman’s right to safe abortion?

[Balayagequeen]

It makes me sad and angry that there are so many people who believe that a woman’s right to a termination is up for debate/political football.

It’s always privileged men too.

No woman should be forced to continue with a pregnancy that she doesn’t want.

An abortion is a very safe, simple procedure, it’s a personal and private choice, it’s discreet, no one is ramming it down anyone else’s throat or trying to persuade others to do it. The vast majority of the time is done very early on in the pregnancy. Evidence shows that there are no long term negative physical or mental effects on the woman.

As someone who works for children’s services, there are already far too many children in the care system and they can end up deeply traumatised, and having poor outcomes in life, adoptions often don’t work out and even when they do can be extremely traumatic for both the mother and child. That is not to take away from all of the wonderful adoptive parents and foster carers, but please let’s not romanticise it.

Most adoptions are because the birth parents are unable to care for the child, not because the mother willingly gave the baby up. Therefore to force a woman to give birth would potentially be the worse option for the woman, the child and any existing siblings. It isn’t a fairytale ending where a woman willingly gives up her baby to a loving couple to live happily ever after.

There are babies conceived in poverty, domestic abuse, rape, teenage pregnancies, older age pregnancies. These women should not be forced to give birth, it is not the better option for anyone.

If abortion was ever restricted in the western world then I have no doubt that it would result in unsafe illegal abortions, risking the woman’s life.

Women take all the risk with pregnancy and childbirth. They take an enormous toll on a woman body, her mental health, her life outcomes. We are not living in the dark ages, women deserve the choice.

What right does any privileged male who has probably never experienced any of these things and has probably done very little child rearing, who can never conceive or give birth, have to try to restrict a women’s access to abortion?

Are they themselves going to care for the babies born? Or will they expect that someone else will do it?

What about women who don’t find out they’re pregnant until after that date? Or can’t get an appointment until 9 weeks?

And what about women who’ve been raped at later stages?

You wanna lay off the anti choice websites you’re perusing, they’re full of lies

I was told at 20 weeks that my childs brain wasnt as expected, I was passed around sonographers and different hospitals and had all the tests possible which takes time, I made it clear we were prepared to terminate rather than raise a disabled child - and after 24 weeks was told they don't know what's wrong but they don't have enough evidence to recommend a termination and I should see that as good news.

That was 4 years ago and I have spent the last 4 years as a full time carer to my disabled child.

"Getting an abortion" isn't actually that straightforward or easy, and it really pisses me off to see people suggest arbitrary cut off dates, 6 weeks, 12 weeks, 16 weeks. Most tests can't be performed that early!

So to anyone who is anti-abortion, I recommend you spend some time in the shoes of parent-carers and see how you would feel if you were told that was your future.

So saying I think women shouldn’t be blazé about abortion means I am not pro-choice? As others have said it doesn’t have to be all or nothing.

I don’t think marriage is a decision to be taken lightly or joining the army but that doesn’t mean I want to legally ban people from doing it. But if people were talking about getting married like it does not matter what the man wants or cares about I think that’s nuts.

What was your ultimate goal question? Was it addressed to me?

But her baby was still alive. The law doesn’t allow killing one life to save another, so in your world she wouldn’t be saved?

And how do you legislate that in anti abortion legislation?? Ireland couldn’t manage it. What is the medical cut off?

Abortion is hugely complex. I think there is a continuum from contraception like the coil, through the MAP and the early termination of a blob of cells and so on.

Advances in neonatal medicine mean that the legal limit for termination is about to collide with foetal viability. While most late terminations are medically complex and should not be judged, not all of them are. OI am not sure where on the continuum above my unease begins, but aborting a foetus that could survive reasonably does feel wrong to me.

Also, OP, you wrote initially that ‘These women should not be forced to give birth, it is not the better option for anyone.’. This statement makes a huge assumption on the part of one potential person whose voice will never be heard when abortion proceeds.

Pro choice arguments would be more intellectually respectable if we acknowledged their complexity and their limitations.

I believe in the UK, the mum's life always takes precedence.
And despite what some people will have you believe, no expectant dad has been asked to choose between mum and baby. That is Hollywood stuff.

We’ll because one is a living baby and the other isn’t.

I feel quite embarrassed for people to have to continue to explain the difference between a fetus and a newborn.

Having baby killers (which women seeking abortions are not) in society is everybody’s business

Semantics.

A fetus was aborted. Because the women matters more.

You shuoldn't create laws based on rare exceptions. Most women will know they're pregnant by then.

If a woman is raped at a later stage then the baby is not his.

What lies?

Your arguments are illogical

Slipping a woman the MAP would be a crime because it’s NOT HER DOING IT.

Have you forgotten women are actual people?

Its hard to believe you’re pro choice when you compare abortion to killing adults.

Yes only the woman is affected. Who else is allegedly affected?

Fetuses are also living. Do better if you want to pretend to be embarrassed at other people's arguments.

But you are getting very mixed up here. The woman will always come first in English law because there is no other life until the child is born. You just don't understand the basic law here.

So you are pro choice as long as a woman is guilt ridden and apologetic?
Yeah being pro choice but with conditions to the woman’s attitude isn’t being pro choice.

Why is a baby passing through the birth canal to take a breath, no matter how shit and impoverished the life they’re being born into the ultimate goal? Why is this goal at the expense of women’s health and safety and a child’s happiness and quality of life?

Complete anti-scientific claptrap. A fetus is a separate individual with its own DNA.

Totally agree. I live in a country where until relatively recently abortion was illegal. Whilst I respect that people are entitled to their own opinions, I thought it was wrong that when pro-life protests occurred, very few of them were even women. Most were middle aged and elderly men. In my opinion, it should be the choice of the woman.

There was an older US politician who raged on about being extremely pro-life, among other fundamentalist religious views. It later came out he had paid at least one woman he had a fling/affair with to have an abortion. I wonder how many men have similar double standards when it comes to themselves.

I guess my thinking is it's not for me to decide who has good enough quality of life to be allowed to keep living. E.g. Poverty levels (as suggested in your post)

Well actually you should make laws based on the most vulnerable. Laws certainly should be made based on the quickest time

If a woman is raped at a later stage then the baby is not his

Pardon??

Lies about diseases, abortions rates and what it’s like to live with a disabled child

I don't think the opportunity to have a safe abortion should be taken away. I also think we need to stop minimising abortion and saying it's okay to have an abortion for whatever reason, such as for a woman to have the life she wanted, that's what contraceptives are for. Abortion should be an absolute last resort for when continuing the pregnancy would have a significant impact on the health (mental as well as physical) of the mother or baby.

No it doesn't.

It isn't safe for the baby who dies

Again, semantics but let’s go with it. They’re “living” entirely dependant on the body of the woman they’re inhabiting. She should have full rights and autonomy over that pregnancy and it should be treated like it’s independent of her. Because it isn’t. She is more important than that “life”. Laws that refute that result in dead women. Are you ok with that?

So you would have a doctor tell a woman in the early stages of pregnancy that she must continue with it because her reasons to abort are not good enough?
Not wanting a baby and/or not wanting to be pregnant should be enough.

There is no baby.
There is only a pregnant woman.

I agree I think it’s dressed up as making it more accessible but the reality is it’s just a cheaper option . It’s not safer and women deserve checks beforehand to make sure they are suitable for this option. A scan to check it’s not an ectopic pregnancy and also the correct amount of weeks to use the tablets.