To be saddened that anyone would want to take away a woman’s right to safe abortion?

[Balayagequeen]

It makes me sad and angry that there are so many people who believe that a woman’s right to a termination is up for debate/political football.

It’s always privileged men too.

No woman should be forced to continue with a pregnancy that she doesn’t want.

An abortion is a very safe, simple procedure, it’s a personal and private choice, it’s discreet, no one is ramming it down anyone else’s throat or trying to persuade others to do it. The vast majority of the time is done very early on in the pregnancy. Evidence shows that there are no long term negative physical or mental effects on the woman.

As someone who works for children’s services, there are already far too many children in the care system and they can end up deeply traumatised, and having poor outcomes in life, adoptions often don’t work out and even when they do can be extremely traumatic for both the mother and child. That is not to take away from all of the wonderful adoptive parents and foster carers, but please let’s not romanticise it.

Most adoptions are because the birth parents are unable to care for the child, not because the mother willingly gave the baby up. Therefore to force a woman to give birth would potentially be the worse option for the woman, the child and any existing siblings. It isn’t a fairytale ending where a woman willingly gives up her baby to a loving couple to live happily ever after.

There are babies conceived in poverty, domestic abuse, rape, teenage pregnancies, older age pregnancies. These women should not be forced to give birth, it is not the better option for anyone.

If abortion was ever restricted in the western world then I have no doubt that it would result in unsafe illegal abortions, risking the woman’s life.

Women take all the risk with pregnancy and childbirth. They take an enormous toll on a woman body, her mental health, her life outcomes. We are not living in the dark ages, women deserve the choice.

What right does any privileged male who has probably never experienced any of these things and has probably done very little child rearing, who can never conceive or give birth, have to try to restrict a women’s access to abortion?

Are they themselves going to care for the babies born? Or will they expect that someone else will do it?

So a woman gives birth to twins, decides she doesn’t want that life after all, and kills them: she is more important than them, it’s her choice, what’s it got to do with anyone else including their father?

Well no because that’s not an abortion. .

Literally the only difference is that they are outside of her body.

Yes exactly. You’re finally getting it. Well done.

*I’m actually pro-choice”

hahahahahahahaha

Nope

They just use melodramatic words like “Killing a baby” and weird analogies about identical twins.

They never answer

Completely ridiculous to say that the morning before my son was born I should be able to kill him and once he came out Im not allowed. Literally same day. This black and white thinking is bizarre. Luckily most people realise it’s more nuanced than that.

Those who are against abortion I wonder if you have personally experienced any of the following?

Been in an abusive relationship where you fear for your life?
Been locked in a property by an abusive partner for days and repeatedly raped?
Been sexually abused and raped by your father/brother?
Been groomed and raped as a teenager?
Had your access to contraception restricted by a partner?
Suffered with learning difficulties where your understanding of contraception/sex and relationships was limited?
Been a drug addict and turned to prostitution or been so out of it that you couldn’t recall how many men you’d had sex with?
Been a drug addict and committed incest for money/drugs?
Accidentally got pregnant as a teenager or as a much older woman?
Suffered with severe mental health problems where medication is needed to function?

People would say that these are rare and unlikely scenarios. They are not. They are all very real situations that have happened to women known to me. Some have become pregnant.

How can it be anything but monstrous to prevent these women from ending the pregnancy?

You have neglected to respond to the fact that someone else killing the babies in utero would not be ok. So it isn’t just that they have left the birth canal.

Trying to win an argument by belittling me instead of responding with an intelligent counter point does nothing to help your cause.

Because there’s a difference between a non viable and viable pregnancy. As a women who has lost a baby to suggest that my loss is the same as an abortion is incredibly insulting.

And in the event it’s not avoided, should women like Saavita die? Because that’s what people like you want to happen

Ok I’m not immediately familiar with the abortion laws in every country,

It's not difficult to find out. Where abortion is legal the cut off is around 12-14 weeks. That applies in most of Europe (except UK and The Netherlands who are outliers at 24 weeks) and many US states.

However there are several US states which allow until viability and several with as long or longer time limits as the UK and The Netherlands.

Thanks for the laugh. You've clearly not read as many posts as I have here. The posts where women are struggling to make work pay after having children due to the cost of childcare, the sex education that starts far too late, the deadbeat fathers who can skirt CMS with alarming ease and leave the mothers of their children destitute.

Ultimately, people who are anti-abortion want to wrap the world up into this neat, little, problem-free package. All of the problems that pro-choice people talk about, well, you can just turn your head and pretend they don't exist. If you don't acknowledge that they exist then you don't have to do a damn thing about trying to fix them.

Nope. The real world isn't quite that simple.

I said I am pro choice. Which I am. But still feel conflicted. I have been raped as a teenager (so I think I tick two boxes) and groomed. I can’t remember without thinking how many men have abused me. I still struggle with abortion.

Well actually there’s one body, and what is effectively a parasite that can’t exist without its host.

The ACTUAL body matters more

Yes. Loads of people want her to die. 🙄

Everyone has their views and I believe everyone should be able to do what they wiish with their own bodies. Can I ask as you are anti abortion, do you back the death penalty?

I’m not sure if this is supposed to be some kind of gotcha.

Yes of course it is easy enough to find out.

I’ve already explained what I meant.

The vast majority of abortions are in the earlier stages of pregnancy.

How would the rape situation work on a practical level?

In a world where women can’t access abortions unless they’re raped, how would they access one?

ok but what sort of life will this baby and mother have. You have to think a bit further than that

I am pro choice.
I don’t believe anyone should be forced to continue, nor end a pregnancy if they don’t want to.

I do help take responsibility for children, I do not begrudge benefits and nor do I ever spout “can’t feed don’t breed” rhetoric.

But the argument remains that it isn’t as simple as the baby being born, there is the whole lifetime, sometimes of utter misery, after it, for both that child and the parent.

Because it doesnt

Why is a 11 week and 6 baby worth less than a 12 week baby?

Why can't you acknowledge that all contraception has a failure rate? The MAP does too, and of course there is the issue that pharmacists are allowed to refuse it on religious grounds. This leaves women in rural areas who don't have a choice of pharmacy in a MAP desert. And pharmacies are closing in droves.

As for the 30 free hours - they aren't free, because the funding given to childcare providers doesn't cover the cost. So there are top up fees. When my two were little, I got 15 hours a week free once they turned 3. Even with that, my monthly bill for full time care was £800. And costs have spiralled since. It isn't affordable. Scandinavian countries have affordable childcare.
Outside of that, it doesn't kick in until your child is 9 months old - and if you're on SMP, you're going to have to go back earlier than that. The cost is prohibitive.

You say parents should be taking care of Sex Ed - I agree, I certainly did with mine because I knew how woefully bad UK provision was. So I did it the Dutch way. However, what do you do about highly religious parents who won't provide sex ed? Children who don't get it, are more likely to not use contraception when they start having sex - and will have unplanned pregnancies. So schools need to step in, and do it much better, with no opting out for anyone.

For the rest of it - you seem very happy for men to get off scot free. You blame women for their 'poor choice of partner' - why don't you share your crystal ball with everyone then? Men misrepresent themselves to get sex. Men fail. Men change and become abusive. None of that is the fault of women.

I say again - forced birthers have a very simplistic view of how life is in the real world.

Safe, legal abortion is needed as a fallback when other provisions fail. The alternative is to ban it, and to watch women die.

Parasite? This is where it gets really messed up. You can be pro choice all you like
but that wording is disgusting. Maybe we should talk about the woman being a host for the unborn child. Let’s face it - when youre pregnant, the body puts the baby first. Your body prioritises the unborn child.

Lots of abhorrent things that happen in the world don’t affect me, doesn’t mean I can’t acknowledge they’re wrong. That seems an odd argument.

Then don't have one, but leave everyone else to come to their own decisions about their own bodies!

260000 abortions a year.
That's the last figure I remember reading.

That's a lot.

If you regret aborting a baby then it might well haunt you for years and colour your entire existence after that point.

Perhaps there isn't always a choice to be made because there isn't another option. What if women had better options.

I can absolutely assure you they my tablet abortion was not like a heavy period! I had to have morphine!

(I then went on to have two massive babies with incredibly long labours and no pain relief, the contractions during the abortion were much, much worse).

By the way, im pro-choice (obviously!) But i dont agree with the tablets being sent in the post.. many moons ago when I had mine, I had to have a scan and the whole thing occurred in hospital. A colleague (/friend) had one 2 years ago, and lied regarding her gestation.. only a week or two but the effects for her were not pleasant.