To be saddened that anyone would want to take away a woman’s right to safe abortion?

[Balayagequeen]

It makes me sad and angry that there are so many people who believe that a woman’s right to a termination is up for debate/political football.

It’s always privileged men too.

No woman should be forced to continue with a pregnancy that she doesn’t want.

An abortion is a very safe, simple procedure, it’s a personal and private choice, it’s discreet, no one is ramming it down anyone else’s throat or trying to persuade others to do it. The vast majority of the time is done very early on in the pregnancy. Evidence shows that there are no long term negative physical or mental effects on the woman.

As someone who works for children’s services, there are already far too many children in the care system and they can end up deeply traumatised, and having poor outcomes in life, adoptions often don’t work out and even when they do can be extremely traumatic for both the mother and child. That is not to take away from all of the wonderful adoptive parents and foster carers, but please let’s not romanticise it.

Most adoptions are because the birth parents are unable to care for the child, not because the mother willingly gave the baby up. Therefore to force a woman to give birth would potentially be the worse option for the woman, the child and any existing siblings. It isn’t a fairytale ending where a woman willingly gives up her baby to a loving couple to live happily ever after.

There are babies conceived in poverty, domestic abuse, rape, teenage pregnancies, older age pregnancies. These women should not be forced to give birth, it is not the better option for anyone.

If abortion was ever restricted in the western world then I have no doubt that it would result in unsafe illegal abortions, risking the woman’s life.

Women take all the risk with pregnancy and childbirth. They take an enormous toll on a woman body, her mental health, her life outcomes. We are not living in the dark ages, women deserve the choice.

What right does any privileged male who has probably never experienced any of these things and has probably done very little child rearing, who can never conceive or give birth, have to try to restrict a women’s access to abortion?

Are they themselves going to care for the babies born? Or will they expect that someone else will do it?

The embryo ve toddler question which Ive already answered. No one is saying embryos in a lab are worth more than a toddler.

Yes that’s after 24 weeks when it would only be done for medical reasons

In the last published figures could find, less than 1% of UK abortions were late term, or beyond 24 weeks, and all of those were for medical reasons such as immediate risk of life to the mother, or lack of viability for the baby.

Unless you’re suggesting those 1% of women should have died themselves, or birthed a baby that wouldn’t survive, just at full term instead?

I am pro choice.

For those who are not, how do you feel about things like the two child benefit cap? You happy to see an unwanted baby born into poverty and possible neglect due to the mother not wanting it and not having been able to afford it?

What is your answer to the many men who just walk away from pregnant women/newborn babies and offer no support? Where do they factor in the forced pregnancy?

Are you stepping into the breach and helping to finance/raise these babies or are you also talking about “feckless single mums” in the same breath and berating people who have more children than they can afford?

Yes, lives matter, but think sometimes what a determination to force women into giving birth will mean for that life after. A mother who didn’t want a baby but was forced to have it is not going to look at that baby and fall in love most probably. She’s going to resent it.

Unless you are willing to pick up the costs for these babies or are going to adopt all these babies then your argument is kind of moot.

Life May began at conception, in your eyes, but it’s not just about forcing them to have it, it’s about all the years of life after.

Too late for me too, if I'm honest. I know someone who gave birth to a baby at 23 weeks +3 days. Baby survived and is doing well and is now at school

Why do you think you have a:say regarding what another woman chooses to do with her body?

I know, not sure what your point is as I was replying to someone who said they were anti abortion.

At 20 weeks you can still have an abortion healthy baby or unhealthy baby. At 24 weeks it becomes illegal unless there’s medical reasons

You say : “If abortion was ever restricted in the western world then…”
It is restricted in a sense in the western world as most European countries don’t allow after 14 weeks unless severe complications or mother’s health at risk. I think UK & NL are exceptions with abortion allowed at up to about 23 weeks?

I'm aware of this.

But what business is it of yours? Are you going to raise all these extra unwanted humans cluttering up the world? What for? Why do you want to enforce pregnancy on women? Some religious nonsense is not a reason.

My point was no one is forcing someone who is anti abortion to have an abortion. So the comment is irrelevant.

So a woman gives birth to twins, decides she doesn’t want that life after all, and kills them: she is more important than them, it’s her choice, what’s it got to do with anyone else including their father? 🤔

Literally the only difference is that they are outside of her body. Surely you can see that it isn’t only her affected. And if someone else killed her babies in utero that also would not be ok. So, you think it only matters whether she wants them dead or not?

I am actually pro-choice, but I don’t think it’s something to be taken lightly and I can’t agree that it is only the woman affected. I think many people have much too blazé attitudes about it.

Pro life people are all about the right of the fetus to have a life.

But they don’t mean quality of life, or safety of the mother or baby - they mean passing through the birth canal and taking a breath. If they were concerned about quality of life, they wouldn’t want the forced birth of thousands of babies who will be born into poverty or the care system. The Ultimate Goal in outlawing safe abortion is for a baby to be born - even if they’re born into a really shit life.

I want to know why that is the Ultimate Goal. Why does this goal come at the expense of safe women and children, of women’s lives and children’s quality of life? Why it is THAT important?

Sorry by the way you were questioning seemed like you weren’t aware of it

Nobody said only the potential mother is affected, but it's her body!

No one ever answers that do they?

'I would also argue that we don't have great sex education, decent childcare, support for women leaving abusive relationships and men taking responsibility for children they've created.'

There is all the above. 30hrs free child care! Sex Ed in schools and actually parents should be taking responsibility for that too. CMS for fathers to pay for their offspring.

However the main thing is pregnancy is extremely easy to avoid with contraception and there is the MAP.

Nope. I wasn't questioning anything.

They don't have much to say to that, because they're afraid to admit they consider women less important than non-sentient and unborn life. Sometimes you get a relatively brazen one who does, but they frame it as; "It's only because babies are more important than anyone, not because women are unimportant." They should at least have the courage of their convictions and admit they don't give a shit about women. Why should babies be more important, even if a fetus was equivalent to a baby? A woman has a life, hopes and dreams and people who depend on her. She is arguably much more valuable to society than an infant if you take the treacle-dripping sentimentality about "innocent little babies" out of it. I like babies just a much as the next person. Cute as they are, they still aren't as important as a person who already has a life and responsibilities. I would have died to save my own kids. I don't demand anyone else to do the same, because it's not about me and my feelings. Rabid anti-choicers are extremely self-absorbed. They think their feelings and irrational beliefs should dictate how other people live, especially women. They just want control. It's not really about the "poor innocent little babies."

I used a condom with my long term partner. Unfortunately it split so I took myself off to get the morning after pill - within 12 hours. It wasnt effective and I became pregnant so had a medical termination.

So your very idealistic version of what women should do didn't work for me, but do tell me what you think I should have done . . .

Do you think Savita Halappanavar should have died?

Answer my question and I’ll answer yours

Because there are two bodies involved; one has no voice and can be killed.

Why do you think you have a say in what I choose to post? Especially on an abortion debate thread?

I’m anti abortion too other than in cases of Rape or for Medical reasons. So, I wouldn’t have one. It’s not my job to police what other women do.

Lots of posters are saying it doesn’t affect anyone else if a woman has an abortion (not necessarily you)