To be alarmed at the number of women who are throwing support behind causes that are clearly anti-woman?

[DorothyGaleFromKansas]

With the recent threads about flags/immigrants and Charlie Kirk etc, there seem to be a bewildering number of women supporting causes that directly go against their own interests, and it’s baffling and frankly a bit disturbing.

Reform have voted against tougher laws on stalking, sexual harassment and upskirting, against clamping down on revenge porn, and against further protections in the workplace. Farage cited Andrew Tate as “an important voice for men”.

Then you have Trump, who was found to have committed rape, forced himself into changing rooms where teenagers were undressing, made sexual comments about his own daughter, not to mention 34 other felonies, and that’s before we even get to the Epstein files.

Charlie Kirk said that women should only vote if they were voting for the candidate chosen by their husband, that women shouldn’t go on to higher education unless it was to find a husband, that women should have to submit to their husbands, and that little girls as young as 9 or 10 including his own daughters should be forced to give birth to babies conceived as a result of rape.

What has happened to us that there are so many women willing to endorse attitudes like this? And how do we fix it?! How have we sunk so low that there are women who think this is what we all deserve? It’s terrifying.

But aren't you one of them? Why are you mixing flags with all your other 'causes'? Do you think flooding the country with 3rd world men who are most likely not what they say and have lied to get here is of benefit to you or other women???
Be a single young western woman or girl in a sskirt in one of those area and see of how much benefit those men are to you and the rest of the society since you clearly have no direct experience of that cause by managing to stay as far away from cultures others than your own while calling others waysist.

Excellent question

Which political party is completely pro woman OP?
None.
Which is why we have a choice between shit, shit, shit, and shitter.
So you make your decisions according to what else matters to you, because women are fucked by every party.

have you completely missed the point? My point is that this is the exact scenario in which rapes happen. Most rapes. Not transpeople in toilets.

It’s not just about rapes, is it? We are allowed to expect privacy and dignity and freedom from sexual harassment too?

Sigh. It's not about 'transpeople'. It's about males. M.a.l.e.s . A trans identified male is a male.

How that male identifies is irrelevant.

A 10 year old girl was raped by a transwoman - or trans identified male, in a toilet. Once, is one too many.

Why do you think many “trans women” threaten women with rape, torture or graphic death, @DorothyGaleFromKansas? Not very womanly behaviour, is it?

If anyone is missing the majority of points in this thread it’s you. Males rape. This includes trans women. As they are male. This includes in toilets. Heard of Katie Dolatowski?

So what is the threshold where having biological men in women's toilets is unacceptable? One rape, ten rapes or when transpeople are committing 'most rapes'?

You simply can't get away from the fact that by allowing biological men into female spaces you are increasing the risk to women using these facilities. This is a risk that many women find intolerable. You may not find the risk intolerable and side with the biological men who think their desire to use females toilets trumps the rights of women that want the spaces to remain single sex. This could be seen as absolutely anti-women though which is ironic in the context of your OP.

Right wing men threatening women and left wing men threatening women are two cheeks of the same arse.

So you can't provide any arguments. All you can do is make personal attacks. For deeply unhappy, look in the mirror.

Yep, a lot of projection going on. And not a smidgen of decent, coherent argument as to why men who feel differently about themselves should be allowed into single sex spaces and sports. Just ‘you’re all anti-trans people!’.

Yes, I for one don’t give a fuck if some randoms on Mumsnet think I’m “anti trans”. None of them have a coherent argument as to why I should believe men are women, or why I should pretend that I do.

@ThatBlackCat My argument has been perfectly clear since the start of the thread and you have been unable to form a coherent rebuttal, instead you use the tactics I’ve already described which makes it impossible to have a discussion. There are posts all over MN where people are denying that Kirk has said racist, misogynistic and bigoted things repeatedly - just one example, he doesn’t believe woman should have rights and is against abortion, including in the circumstance of rape. He has said that he would force his own daughter who is 10 years old to continue with a pregnancy, if she was raped. As a feminist, I think this is abhorrent. But you will continue to deny and obfuscate, stamp your feet and call people names because apparantly if we don’t centre everything on the trans debate, we are misogynists. Your argument doesn’t stand, you just want to spit hatred and vitriol which causes further division and does no good for anyone.

Why are you obsessed with whether and how many trans people [sic, though you surely know it's only male trans people that would be relevant here] are raping women in toilets?

Women are not just people who get raped or people who might need an abortion or people who get upskirted or whatever disjointed thing you want to focus on by some sort of weird unfathomable coincidence you know. These things happen to us because we are female.

Saying you care about these things while simultaneously denying us the political space and language to talk about who they happen to and why, and why single sex protections and rights are important in this context, is not feminism, it's just political window dressing.

You really don’t have a coherent argument. Why should women see “trans women” as women? Because they say so?

Exactly

Also, lots of the quotes people are repeating without much thought do appear on closer examination to be edited and taken out of context. Don’t confuse people pointing that out with active support for CK and everything he stood for.

That isn’t my argument - you really are incapable of not bringing the trans debate into everything.

👏

We’re talking about “the trans debate”, right here on the thread.

Ah the old ‘taken out of context’ argument. He’s was a misogynist bigot. If you agree with him just have the balls to own it.

@DorothyGaleFromKansas basically implied I was a right wing nut job for even asking the question, but I'd still like to know how many women harmed in toilets/other communal spaces by men, does she consider to be acceptable collateral damage?

I'd like to know her answer.

Good to know that you don’t have any answer to that question. I never expected one, obviously. So you’ll understand if I don’t see why I should stop campaigning for sex based rights, I guess. You do you.