To be alarmed at the number of women who are throwing support behind causes that are clearly anti-woman?

[DorothyGaleFromKansas]

With the recent threads about flags/immigrants and Charlie Kirk etc, there seem to be a bewildering number of women supporting causes that directly go against their own interests, and it’s baffling and frankly a bit disturbing.

Reform have voted against tougher laws on stalking, sexual harassment and upskirting, against clamping down on revenge porn, and against further protections in the workplace. Farage cited Andrew Tate as “an important voice for men”.

Then you have Trump, who was found to have committed rape, forced himself into changing rooms where teenagers were undressing, made sexual comments about his own daughter, not to mention 34 other felonies, and that’s before we even get to the Epstein files.

Charlie Kirk said that women should only vote if they were voting for the candidate chosen by their husband, that women shouldn’t go on to higher education unless it was to find a husband, that women should have to submit to their husbands, and that little girls as young as 9 or 10 including his own daughters should be forced to give birth to babies conceived as a result of rape.

What has happened to us that there are so many women willing to endorse attitudes like this? And how do we fix it?! How have we sunk so low that there are women who think this is what we all deserve? It’s terrifying.

Did you even read the rest of my post?

YOU are, I’M not. That’s my entire point. You are not engaging with anything that isn’t about that, and repeatedly bring my posts back to your agenda. It’s pointless trying to engage with you.

I don’t care, I’m responding to people who are talking about why I should believe men are women, or pretend to do so. I don’t have any interest in you, so maybe stop engaging with me? Or you’re going to get more arguments as to why gender identity ideology is a bad thing 🤷‍♀️ because it’s directly relevant to this question, whatever you imagine.

Lots of those quotes were misrepresented. It's important to should be pointed out, because it is not okay to embellish the story for your own ends.

At the same time, I still don't agree with plenty of the points he actually made/things he actually stood for.

Both of these can be true at the same time.

And yes you are talking about “the trans debate” by telling women they shouldn’t talk about it 🤷‍♀️ you can’t have it both ways.

Why is this so difficult to understand 🤯

No it hasn't. You've refused to engage in good faith. And when called out you used personal attacks. You go on about abortion, but you don't believe rape survivors like me deserve a male free single sex space. You are no feminist. You just want to spew hatred and vitriol at survivors like me fighting for my rights, and hide behind abortion rights to pretend you're a feminist. If you don't believe women and girls have to privacy and dignity as well as safety, you're a Mens Rights Activist.

Charlie Kirk held views that range from (imho) disagreeable to abhorrent. I don’t think many people would deny he held very conservative, right wing values. But he was an advocate of respectful discussion and debate with people who hold different opinions. I’m fine with other people thinking differently to me and wanting to discuss it and coming away agreeing to disagree.

What is upsetting is a violent murder being considered somehow less regrettable when it is to shut someone up who had different views. Especially when the victim did not advocate violence but conversation with opponents. It runs the risk of CK being elevated to a martyr, a right wing MLK if you like.

Where it ties into the discussion on women’s rights in the UK is that women have been saying for at least a decade that we would like to sit down with the transgender community and discuss areas where there appears to be a conflict of rights, such as single sex spaces. In return we got no debate and violent threats. So yes, many feminists were shocked and appalled that an advocate of debate got murdered like that, because much as we might disagree with what he said, we appreciated how he conducted himself. All we’ve learned really is that a disappointing number of people think killing people who hold different, legally expressed opinions is acceptable, and that has consequences for any high profile gender critical women.

So much this.

Of course, now it’s all ‘I don’t care’ because that’s all you can say. Stop quoting me then and dragging me into an argument that is not mine! You have de-railed the entire thread. There are already so many anti trans threads on MN. God knows why this one had to be made into another.

You were literally talking about the “trans debate” in the post I quoted. It’s been brought up because it’s relevant. It’s not a derail because it’s an issue of women’s rights that the left is getting wrong.

If you want to stop talking about it, you’ll have to stop engaging with women talking about it.

'anti trans'.

From an anti-woman activist that personally attacks rape survivors.

Women’s sex based rights are not “anti trans”. The world does not revolve around these men.

FFS, it’s part of the debate! Just because you want to dress it up as being anti-trans doesn’t mean no one else is allowed to discuss why women aren’t voting for left wing parties. One of the reasons why is because they are saying men can become women, women are losing their rights to sex based spaces and sports, and women have had to go to the Supreme Court to say what a woman is, in 2025, and not what a man is funnily enough.

Discussion evolves, the OP has been throwing out ‘anti-trans’ sound bites, people will respond as they see fit. You’ve personally attacked a rape survivor whose arguments as to why it’s a male problem and not a ‘trans’ problem as you keep harping on about (but said you weren’t going to) are perfectly put. By your responses I’m not sure you know at this stage what you’re arguing for/against. Just that CK is a big hateful bigot, which people can agree with but also agree on his stance about males who say they are women.

Women often go against their own best interests in the long term for short term gain. Otherwise you're fighting society, culture, family, your own assumptions, everything. It's exhausting.

Example - I have shaved my legs everyday since I was 15. It takes time, effort and the cost of razors. It's been a long-term burden. But I think unshaved legs look awful (my own assumptions) and I'm scared of being mocked or teased (why I started shaving them). I know there's a movement to normalise unshaved legs and I am proud of those brave, young women but I'm too scared to join them. So I continually shave my legs even though it would be better for me to stop.

That's my two-pennorth x

To the anti-women bigots:

I’m not. This is what you are doing. You are putting words into my mouth that I never said. I am genuinely disturbed by your posts.

You did call her unwell, maybe lay off the personal slurs @Plastictreees- you do seem to be having trouble disagreeing civilly.

Thank you. It’s refreshing when someone responds to the topic without de-railing it to suit their agenda.

More rubbish. Considering her post got deleted due to it being a personal attack it’s another example of your hypocrisy yet again.

Doesn’t matter what the ratio is - one woman raped in a womens’ safe space by a man in a dress is one too many. Do you disagree ?