To be alarmed at the number of women who are throwing support behind causes that are clearly anti-woman?

[DorothyGaleFromKansas]

With the recent threads about flags/immigrants and Charlie Kirk etc, there seem to be a bewildering number of women supporting causes that directly go against their own interests, and it’s baffling and frankly a bit disturbing.

Reform have voted against tougher laws on stalking, sexual harassment and upskirting, against clamping down on revenge porn, and against further protections in the workplace. Farage cited Andrew Tate as “an important voice for men”.

Then you have Trump, who was found to have committed rape, forced himself into changing rooms where teenagers were undressing, made sexual comments about his own daughter, not to mention 34 other felonies, and that’s before we even get to the Epstein files.

Charlie Kirk said that women should only vote if they were voting for the candidate chosen by their husband, that women shouldn’t go on to higher education unless it was to find a husband, that women should have to submit to their husbands, and that little girls as young as 9 or 10 including his own daughters should be forced to give birth to babies conceived as a result of rape.

What has happened to us that there are so many women willing to endorse attitudes like this? And how do we fix it?! How have we sunk so low that there are women who think this is what we all deserve? It’s terrifying.

@PrinnyPree as long as there are trans people who get their rights taken away too.

No 'rights' are being taken away from 'trans people'. Rights are being restored to the female sex.

I mean most women who fear trans people have never even really met one in person

I "find it terrifying" that you think we fear trans 'people'. You really don't get it, do you? You just don't get it. We fear MALES. No matter if that male is in a suit and tie, or in a dress. MALE. It's not about 'trans people' vs other people. It's about male vs female. And despite all of us having met males, I can tell you that most of us have met a truly narcissistic transwoman and that is what made us 'terf'. The amount of people who ass'ume we've never met 'trans people' and are so deep in denial that don't realise the overwhelming majority of us have. We know from hard experience.

managed to scapegoat trans women for actual male violence

Transwomen ARE male. And prison data from not just the UK, but from America, Canada, and from NZ show that transwomen sexually offend 5 times higher than other ('cis') males. Transwomen are 5 times more dangerous than all other males. This, is what actual data shows.

You really seem to think transwomen are completely different sexes and species. Transwomen are males with penis and testicles just in a dress. That's all. They are male. In every single way.

I think you have answered your own question but not in the way that you mean. The problem with the progressive less is that it has been infiltrated by extremism. Women can't express concerns about biological men being allowed into female spaces without being called a bigot. Women can't express concerns about some religions and the implications of these religions on women's rights without being called bigots. It is tiresome and there has to be room for nuance.

Unfortunately many feminists are stuck between a rock and hard place. The left and right seems equally keen to throw women under the bus when it suits them, often to benefit men. Ultimately, because women are rounded humans that have views on issues that aren't just related to women's rights then it is more likely they align with the party that best represents these other views as no group is really championing women's rights.

Mate, we just don’t think men are women. And we’re not going to lie. That’s literally all.

Great post.

The women who's position you find so 'unhinged' are entirely in line with the law on the subject.

So really, that's what you think is unhinged?

Also, women who think “trans women” should be able to use female only spaces are very much in the minority and the number who do are going down, not up.

I find it rather unhinged that so many people are prepared to collude in a lie.

You literally answered her question. She ain’t listening.

Me too.

I will repost my reply to someone else, to you.

I "find it terrifying" that you think we fear trans 'people'. You really don't get it, do you? You just don't get it. We fear MALES. No matter if that male is in a suit and tie, or in a dress. MALE. It's not about 'trans people' vs other people. It's about male vs female. And despite all of us having met males, I can tell you that most of us have met a truly narcissistic transwoman and that is what made us 'terf'. Meet a transwoman. Fastest way to become a 'terf'. Guaranteed. The amount of people who ass'ume we've never met 'trans people' and are so deep in denial that don't realise the overwhelming majority of us have. We know from hard experience.

We are diven by WOMENS RIGHTS. Not 'trans' 'rights'. At least, OP, at the very least, get it right. YOU are driven by 'trans (aka male) rights'. We, are driven by WOMENS rights.

Trump and Farage have nothing to do with this, except to opportunistically pick up the dropped ball by the left on this. It is left wing feminists who are driving this. Your entire post shows you have not one single clue whatsoever, what this is about. Go and read FWR before speaking on this issue again, please. Because A) it's about womens rights, not trans rights, and B) almost all of us have met a transwoman hence our stance.

I do not understand how some people have convinced themselves that trans identifying males are somehow a completely separate class to other males.

They haven’t, really though. They just think it’s the right thing to do. I think a lot of these people think that the numbers are very small and they often have a “lovely trans friend”.

The assumption that we've never met a male before or even met a transwoman before is so batshit crazy it defies all logic and shows their complete lack of knowledge of this topic. Despite the fact that almost all of us 'terfs' have met a transwoman (hence turning us 'terf'), there is an assumption that if only we would meet a transwoman, then we'd change our mind about letting males in female only intimate safe spaces. I mean, wtf??? Is this really what they think and believe? Meeting a transwoman will suddenly change our minds about having single sex spaces? People saying this cannot be real. They cannot be in their right mind. I know many males. I have met transwomen. Knowing males and transwomen is not going to change my view that single sex spaces are important. It's not going to suddenly make 2+2 equal 5, instead of 4.

trans rights rhetoric…

WOMENS rights! ff. But the fact you say 'trans rights' says it all about where you stand on womens rights vs mens rights. I think many of you genuinely don't even see women as human. So your default is to talk about mens (trans) rights. That's why you change womens rights to 'trans' rights.

You don't see women. At all.

What is bad is that this false belief makes most people completely unable to trust politicians. They don’t have to care all that much about the trans agenda, but saying clearly false, absurd things like “trans women are women” makes politicians look even more craven and dishonest than people expect them to be.

i think that’s the effect it had in the US elections. It was the clearly batshit nature of what Democrats were supporting, even to people who didn’t really care about it. This ideology makes clowns of its supporters.

Meeting a transwoman will suddenly change our minds about having single sex spaces?

Exactly. So meeting a transwoman is going to make us believe that men can become women? Really?

Personally, I've met many trans identified people, most notably a family member who has since detransitioned. But they don't want to hear that story either.

The other thing that gender identity ideology does is drive a wedge through any kind of “progressive” organisation. If you make any concession to the idea that “trans women” are not 100% women in every way, ie tentatively suggesting that there should be some limited female only spaces or that lesbians are females not attracted to men, you will be targeted as a “transphobe”. There will be a concerted effort to purge you from the genderists. They are zealots and it’s a religious belief, essentially. The organisation or party is secondary. This will end up splitting apart both the Greens and “Your Party”, is my prediction.

Yet you keep renaming WOMENS rights as 'trans' 'rights'.

You give yourself away. You cannot even bring yourself to write womens rights.

None of us feminists want to discuss trans rights. The only one talking about trans rights, is you (and the OP). We, want to talk about womens rights. You don't.

If you’re talking about the data you reported upthread about rape as a feature of domestic violence, I’d be interested in knowing where you got the data. You reported that 50% of women are raped as a result of domestic violence. What the figures actually say is that one in two women are raped by a partner or an ex partner. These are not all within the context of domestic abuse. The CPS reports that around 20% of prosecuted rape is within a domestic abuse setting.

Context is everything and your quotes about Charlie Kirk in your OP are troubling for similar reasons. I’m not saying he didn’t say those things, but as sound bites you can use them to make whatever point you want. Whereas, quoted within the context of the conversation in which they were said, the meaning is different from your portrayal.

Oh and the domestic abuse/rape figures don’t excuse the damage trans activism has done to womens’ rights. It’s not a game of top trumps and l would imagine those women and girls who have been assaulted as a result of men invading womens’ safe spaces would disagree with your position.

No, you are using anti women rhetoric.

There is no 'anti trans' debate. You want us to have an anti women debate.

No. Men dressed as women, thinking that that qualifies them as women and therefore entitled to in pee women only bathrooms is a definite problem. Why are you playing top trumps with womens’ issues to support a viewpoint that almost no-one here agrees with ?

My point, very simply, is that you cannot endorse, support and defend racist, misogynist bigots like Trump and Kirk and claim to be a feminist. Even if you are supporting them because you align on trans issues, these men want to set women’s rights back hundreds of years. I can’t imagine the amount of cognitive dissonance and mental gymnastics required to do this.

I am able to have a discussion about the misogyny outlined in the OP without centering this around the rights trans people should or should not have. I have not said my stance on this, yet people are throwing around accusations and inferences and telling me what I think. I am not interested in being railroaded into, what has clearly become, an echo chamber of the same posters throwing insults, hyperbole and inflammatory statements at those who don’t jump on their bandwagon with them.

Continue frothing away. As you were.

It's not about a 'transgender person'. It's about a MALE person. Transgender people are not some type of 'third sex', you know. They're still either male or female. And female spaces are for females. Rebadging 1% of males as a "transgender person" doesn't change that they are male. And in the wrong space.
And it's not merely about being attacked, either. It's about our basic right to privacy and dignity, away from the male gaze.

Lastly, the need for toilets, and for female only spaces, affects 100% of women every day. Abortion only affects around 25% of women.

Yes, how very dare we support a good, decent chivalrous man who will risk everything to defend womens rights. Shock horror!