To be alarmed at the number of women who are throwing support behind causes that are clearly anti-woman?

[DorothyGaleFromKansas]

With the recent threads about flags/immigrants and Charlie Kirk etc, there seem to be a bewildering number of women supporting causes that directly go against their own interests, and it’s baffling and frankly a bit disturbing.

Reform have voted against tougher laws on stalking, sexual harassment and upskirting, against clamping down on revenge porn, and against further protections in the workplace. Farage cited Andrew Tate as “an important voice for men”.

Then you have Trump, who was found to have committed rape, forced himself into changing rooms where teenagers were undressing, made sexual comments about his own daughter, not to mention 34 other felonies, and that’s before we even get to the Epstein files.

Charlie Kirk said that women should only vote if they were voting for the candidate chosen by their husband, that women shouldn’t go on to higher education unless it was to find a husband, that women should have to submit to their husbands, and that little girls as young as 9 or 10 including his own daughters should be forced to give birth to babies conceived as a result of rape.

What has happened to us that there are so many women willing to endorse attitudes like this? And how do we fix it?! How have we sunk so low that there are women who think this is what we all deserve? It’s terrifying.

Yeah, the toilet example was just that, an example.

I still think the influence that Andrew Tate has on men and boys is far more of a significant threat to girls and women. As is Farage endorsing him and his horrible ideas. Farage is being at least partly funded by the same crazy, women hating so called Christians that have funded Trump is alarming as he gains more ground politically. Those issues are a threat to women and girls as a whole.

Yes, but it's always used as an example when people want to downplay the issue. It's about far more than toilets.

And it doesn't have to be a top trumps of what's worse. We shouldn't have to choose between two different flavours of misogynistic abuse. We should be making our needs and our rights heard to all parties.

Watch how Reform act when they get into power.
Have a look at how things are going in the councils they control.
Are they actually making the lives of residents better
or are they posturing over flags flying on council buildings ?

Watch how MAGA act now they have total control over the USA.
Are they making lives better for the left behind ?
Are they supporting communities devastated by hurricanes ?
Are they making sure trade is smoothed to keep food prices stable ?
Are they ensuring that the vulnerable have health cover ?
Or are they gold plating the Oval Office and paving the Rose Garden while lining their own pockets ?

And we shouldn’t forget that historically it was a left-wing position to be anti-immigration as the ready supply of cheap labour depressed wages and undermined the fight for better working conditions.

I am begging people to keep things in perspective. The most Farage has ever said about abortion is that he has mused about whether to change the cut-off for elective abortion to 22 weeks, from 24, in line with improvements in medical tech changing the "viability" cutoff.

Considering that in the UK there are medical grounds which don't have any time limit, and that 24 is well above similar cutoffs in Europe in countries we don't accuse of being fascist hellholes, it's absolute hysteria to say that these people are ushering in the Handmaid's Tale.

It's absolute hypocrisy to accuse others of "making everything about anti-trans" when you are dragging American-style abortion politics here, and acting as if abortion rights are even in the top 10 issues facing British women today.

The single biggest threat to abortion rights in the UK is people who push "any time, any reason, no prosecution" laws and make people go hang on, I was fine with early term but this is going way too far. Stats on "supports abortion" often elide the fact that most people (including women) are MUCH more comfortable with first-trimester abortion than anything later.

If there comes a point when my 10yo daughter is legally forced to carry her rapist's baby to term then I will prioritise it higher. We are absolutely nowhere near that point in the UK.

How lazy to say that just because men we know may attack us that we might as well be stripped of our dignity in public by men who are strangers too. Or by our work colleagues and classmates. Why should we be uncomfortable in those settings just because men can't behave in others?

Yes the ideas if those men can lead to worse outcomes for women if enacted in law....but at least we can define ourselves in order to counterattack their arguments and highlight to other women where we are being discriminated against on the grounds of our sex.

The left would present statistics on equal pay to include men who identify as trans on the female side.

It’s also an argument that I’ve seen used by the anti trans lot very often. Which is why I used it.

The sport issue… maybe there can be a compromise somewhere. No idea what, I’m not sporty, hated PE as a kid and any suspicion I might have to run for any reason makes me want to automatically fake period pains even at my big age.

Women’s prisons and similar spaces… they deserve to all be kept safe from anyone who is a danger to them and their safety, whether they are born male or not.

I still find the way things are going and have been going for a while in this country politically far more concerning than trans issues.

No, that wasn’t Farage, that was Charlie Kirk who said that. He was mentioned in the OP. Farage is a concern as he is being funded by the crazy Christian types funding Trump. He and his party are making gains and that concerns me. Abortion issues yes, but also women’s rights in general to be protected from sexual predators. And separately to that, my child who has disabilities and needs lots of support day to day. Farage and Reform have made it pretty clear where they stand on those issues. And it’s apparently not on the side of people who are in any way vulnerable.

Basically, Nigel is just a threat to everyone who isn’t a white, able bodied, man.

Why does there need to be compromise for sport? Why can't women and girls have their own sport? Why do they have to hand their opportunities to men? You may not have been sporty, but plenty of women are. Why shouldn't they get their own opportunities?

And men commit something like 95% of sex based crime. Why would/should any women be locked up with a man? Why would anyone argue to dismantle such a basic safeguarding principle?

What is in it for for women to allow men to 'identify' as one?

I still find the way things are going and have been going for a while in this country politically far more concerning than trans issues.

What like misogyny in the police - Wayne Couzens / David Caddick
Misogyny in the armed forces - Deepcut Barracks suicides
Misogyny in the NHS - women raped to death in a hospital ward and it covered up
Misogyny in trade Unions - multiple settled ETs
Misogyny in the workplace - women still having to fight for equal pay
Misogyny in the NHS - the reports on management of maternity services

When women are told to shut up when asking for safe spaces and rights
that is misogyny.
When the men invading spaces are lauded for growing their hair and wearing a skirt
that is misogyny

Well quite.

This!

So many people are suckered by the left into thinking women's rights begin and end with our wombs. All things abortion.

They wilfully forget that most women will never have nor want an abortion and instead spend 20-30 years of their lives raising and providing for the children that come out of their wombs. Both the male and female ones!
They want jobs, education, healthcare, fairness, peace of mind, equality of opportunity in careers and sport. For them and their children.

If they've been failed by Labour and Tories over and over again and now have to deal with obsessive cults who try to make us all disbelieve biological reality ....who the fuck is anyone to tell them not to vote a different way!

This is exactly what they're saying in defence of US gun laws. Killers will always find ways to kill. Do you agree with that too?

I do know it was Charlie Kirk who said that, I'm pointing out that the "blanket ban on all abortions from conception" position is barely even a fringe position in the UK so, per the title of this thread which is about why women are prioritising trans threats over abortion rights threats in the UK, I don't think the size of the threat is credible.

If I lived in Utah maybe I'd think differently, but I don't.

Actually this is exactly what Farage had said about abortion.

His point is that most babies survive being born at 24 weeks - he suggests 22 weeks would be a better limit for any reason (no mention of changing abortion rights for medical reasons. This would still be much more generous than eg the Mumsnet Mecca of France.

I did say maybe compromise tbf.

As for prison, I haven’t been to prison but I have previously lived in a women’s refuge with my kids. I can’t say personally that I or my kids would have felt threatened by someone trans also living there because they didn’t. We were all women and most of us were/are mothers. We were very lucky really as the staff did their best to keep us safe as possible. I know a couple of women who have been to prison and they didn’t get that. No mention of anyone trans mind you, but prisoners safety is often compromised in general it seems. I don’t think that it’s a trans issue and to make it such, distracts from other things that should be fixed.

And again, presumptions from you about my experiences and more than a few attempts to point score.
I guess everyone has to have a hobby.
There you go, you have the last word. Over to you, enjoy, hope makes you feel big and important.

I will happily detest racists. But thanks for your input.

Just because you wouldn’t have felt threatened by a man being in your women’s refuge doesn’t mean all women would have felt the same. Men (however they identify) have no place in a women’s refuge

So what you're saying is that men have all the power and they will only let us have some of our rights at any one time. So we must concede this and be left to fight amongst ourselves over which rights our sex gets to have and what we don't have.

You've decided for all of us which that will be.

Never mind the fact that all males can piss in peace perfectly well in the male room. What is it about this awful place call "the mens toilet" that makes it so unpeaceful? Are there wars and demonstrations going on routinely? Gang violence?

Every male I've ever known has entered and emerged unscathed without a single story to tell about the mens toilets. Children, elderly, disabled, gay, effeminate...all of them! What do you know that we don't? Have you sneaked a peek in there yourself??

But why?

What kind of compromise is going to benefit women? None. So why would you even go there, unless you are much more concerned with accommodating men than accommodating womenzx

As for refuges, I know someone who unfortunately spent time in one and given what she was escaping from, the presence of a man would have been extremely traumatic for her. I find it quite astonishing that those who purport to be on the side of women would not stand this.

Locking up men with women is nothing short of inhumane. There's a woman in California suing the state for the sexual abuse she endured while sharing a cell with a man.

And again, more presumptions. In my world taking is also listening. Are you me? Were you there when I have had conversations (clue, conversations means both people conversing)?
No, well, congrats on your attempt to point score. I find it highly amusing that two people on here are telling me to listen when all they haven't done any such thing in the slightest!

You wouldn't have felt threatened by a man living in a woman's refuge?

(And for the millionth time it's not about trans it's about women's rights)

Yeah… but that’s sort of why I was like why is he bringing up abortion at all? As a
nation we don’t really give a shit what other people do with their reproductive organs, what comes out of them and whether we choose abortion or not. He wants to get in good with the aforementioned Christian types who have oodles of money. So what else will he allow them to influence in exchange for their money that will have a detrimental effect on us so long as it personally benefits him? That’s the issue. That’s why he’s a threat imo. Sorry that apparently wasn’t clear enough before.

so you’d rather condemn women to losing their rights to protect a hypothetical 10 year old? You seem er…. Sane