To be alarmed at the number of women who are throwing support behind causes that are clearly anti-woman?

[DorothyGaleFromKansas]

With the recent threads about flags/immigrants and Charlie Kirk etc, there seem to be a bewildering number of women supporting causes that directly go against their own interests, and it’s baffling and frankly a bit disturbing.

Reform have voted against tougher laws on stalking, sexual harassment and upskirting, against clamping down on revenge porn, and against further protections in the workplace. Farage cited Andrew Tate as “an important voice for men”.

Then you have Trump, who was found to have committed rape, forced himself into changing rooms where teenagers were undressing, made sexual comments about his own daughter, not to mention 34 other felonies, and that’s before we even get to the Epstein files.

Charlie Kirk said that women should only vote if they were voting for the candidate chosen by their husband, that women shouldn’t go on to higher education unless it was to find a husband, that women should have to submit to their husbands, and that little girls as young as 9 or 10 including his own daughters should be forced to give birth to babies conceived as a result of rape.

What has happened to us that there are so many women willing to endorse attitudes like this? And how do we fix it?! How have we sunk so low that there are women who think this is what we all deserve? It’s terrifying.

Your truth is not their truth. The real truth is quite possibly not either “truth”.

Of course not. Which is why women are concerned about not allowing men into their spaces and prizes, as well as abortion rights and all our other rights.

Quite!

I don't want my right taken away whereby I can to go to the swimming pool daily and know that a man isnt going to standing there staring at my breasts.

Or that I come out of a cubicle in a toilet to find a man standing exposing himself to me under the guise of fixing his tights.

Yes, I’ve been on the thread since the start 🙄 you haven’t once engaged with why women might feel
alienated by the left. You said it was “unfathomable” that trans ideology was an issue.

Do most places not have cubicles? I understand for some people that would make them feel uncomfortable, I don't want to change infront of anyone no matter what they identify as but again bigger picture. What's more important. I don't pretend to have all the answers but personally for me having free health care, the right for people to choose to have an abortion, uncensored education, celebrating differences and inclusion, benefits and support for people who need them (anyone can fall into hard times at any moment) etc is more important. I once read a quote that people have hundreds of problems until they have a health problem. Then they only have one problem. Your health is your wealth. Maybe I'm wrong but what I'm seeing in America right now is terrifying. One fox new presenter actually said that homeless people should be involuntarily injected with something and killed. That's frightening.

You keep going calling people 'thick' and see how that works out for you in winning their hearts and minds

This is not slander, which is defined as spoken defamation rather than written .
It would be libel except that the truth is a complete defence against accusations of libel, and this man's opinions were recorded.
In addition, accusations of libel against someone who is dead cannot proceed.

Firstly, no lots of places don't.

Secondly, it's about far more than changing rooms.

Thirdly, it should never be an either / or situation. We need to be alive to and fight the erosion of women's rights wherever the source.

No many places such as public pools and health spas have open changing spaces with lockers all around. Zero privacy.

Those with cubicles still have gaps above and below and open into a quiet area where a man can be standing flashing himself. Or very close so that a woman has to rub past him. We all have been in places where cubicle locks are broken for weeks on end and a man can just push open the door and go "oops didn't realise you were in there!!" These are well documented examples of the types of intimidation men do to women in these spaces. And boys in mixed toilets in schools.

If you allow them into ONE single place labelled female you have to let them into ALL whether they have cubicles with working locks or not

Edited to add:
In my local town recently a woman walked into the female toilets of a dept store only to find a man standing halfway inside the cubicle wanking. She had to turn on her heel and run out. Having cubicles didn't protect her from him. It could have been a little girl walking in on him. Having clear laws about men not being allowed sets clear boundaries and routes to prosecution for these men.

Reading is fundamental. I said that it was unfathomable that people focus on it to the exclusion of all else. That is not the same thing.

The culture of hate he helped build ultimately killed him.

I don't disagree but men will always find ways to harass and attack women. Anyone can walk into any public space at anytime unless you put security at the door. I understand what you're saying about making it easier for sexual predators but you are more likely to be sexually abused/assaulted by someone you know. Politicians like Farage want to lessen sentences for up skirters, hail Andrew Tate, put further limitations on abortion etc (& that's just what he's saying out loud). I find someone like him being in power much much more concerning for woman.

Men will always find ways to attack women, so let's make it even easier for them isn't really a great take, now is it?

Definitely. Women absolutely should not vote for Farage/ Reform. He'll take everything back to the Middle Ages..

And it's about basic Feminism and women's rights.

It's about that living and growing up in a society where all of us are to some extent still socialised to put more weight and credibility on male voices and presence than female, and to expect different social behaviours and levels of ambition or accomodation and #kindess from men and women, and understanding that regardless of our conscious beliefs this impacts the way women act in public, and so having spaces where we can be without men matters to us in ways that having spaces where men can be without women doesn't matter to men.

It's about being able to say very clearly that sexualising female bodies and thereby normalising male sexual agression and encrouchment on women makes women uncomfortable, reduces our social authority and puts us in danger, without having the waters muddied by people who insist they are a "woman" defined through that sexualisation .

It's about being able to draw a clear line between the heavier reproductive burden women unavoidably carry and the heavier domestic burden we also get dumped with, the way it ties us to the home and a provider and makes us vulnerable to financial, emotional and domestic abuse, and the worse life changes and financial outcomes we end up with because of this.

It's about being able to say that regardless of what men who identify as women may feel about themselves, most of what happens to us "as women" rather than just "as people" is not because of how we identify but because of our bodies, because of how others react to us and what they expect of us because of our bodies, and because of how we learn to see ourselves as a result.

It's all very well snapping trite little soundbites about how the Right know what women are so they can abuse and control them, but what the Left refuse to admit, and why so many women feel politically homeless, is that if you follow that logic through, you realise that exactly because Trumps and the Charlie Kirks of this world do see that female people exist and do want to control us because of our biology, we cannot accept the Left excluding the reality of our biology and the social impact it brings from their political discourse.

Well, I actually never have but I have thought it. There's no other conclusion when people really just believe social media, rather than go learn a thing or two.

I don’t want Farage and Reform to win the next election, for a multitude of reasons. But they will win the next election unless the other parties snap themselves out of their purity spirals and start listening to people outside their focus groups.

Stop closing your ears as soon as you hear something uncomfortable that could be deemed racist or xenophobic. It might well be, but you’ve got to get past that and understand what the true issues are and why they’ve been sold the lie that their problems are all to do with immigrants, legal or otherwise. FFS, this has been going on well before Gordon Brown and his Bigotted Woman moment. If people had a choice of secure, affordable housing that they could afford to heat, affordable transport options to get them to secure jobs with guaranteed hours that pay enough for them to feed their children, suitable childcare options, the ability to see a GP when you need them rather than in six weeks, a dentist (full stop), schools for their kids that don’t have scaffolding around the crumbling concrete and enough staff to actually teach rather than just contain the troublesome pupils, hospitals/emergency care within a 15 minute drive rather than hours away in the nearest city when there’s two buses a day, a local shopping precinct that has more variety than charity, vape and pound shops and becomes a no go area thanks to spice heads, alcoholics and other unsavoury characters, the local ex-RAF base that was promised investment to become a new technology park with jobs for locals wasn’t now slated to be a holding pen for immigrants, their elderly parents get care… well maybe if they had this then they wouldn’t be quite so concerned about immigration and probably wouldn’t be bothered so much that their GP, dentist, chiropodist, taxi driver don’t speak with a British accent. Because there’s enough to go round for everyone.

However successive Labour and Conservative governments have done the square root of fuck all for these areas for generations now and people here don’t believe either party any more. Into the void steps Farage and his motley crew. Trump did it in the USA by his takeover of the Republicans, Farage will cannibalise both the left and right working class vote.

Please can you post your sources?

You could try actually listening to them

I had this argument with someone yesterday. When people act insulted and hurt that they are being called stupid but they dont bother to go to different sources and learn things for themselves you do get fed up in the end. Has this country really gone so far down hill that the right to be ignorant and stupid and to wear a lack of knowledge like a badge of pride is the goal.we should all be working towards. God help us.

And what are you doing to make that happen?

I can't believe I have to explain this to an adult(1), but no one thinks they themslves are stupid. Even if they are.

So calling people stupid is not going to change their minds. They will just assume that you are stupid.

If you want people to change their thinking, to "educate themselves" so they are less stupid (ie so they agree with you), you have to meet them where they are. You have to show them a path they want to walk along!

(1) This is me calling you stupid BTW. Did it make you think "yeah, she has a point, I am stupid. I need to learn more and think more clearly"? Or did it make you think "Patronising cow, she knows nothing! I know I'm right about this, it is bloody obvious!"

Have you read my posts. Women will be in much greater danger if we vote for one party purely on trans issues. Ideally a decent political party will come along where spaces can be made for transgender etc. Like I said I don't have all the answers but on focusing on this one thing we are ignoring all the other dangerous things. Americans voted for trump because of his rhetoric on trans, immigration and minority groups etc and he's a misogynistic psychopath. He has openly assaulted women and he's the president. That's frightening. Personally I don't view trans people as a threat but that doesn't mean I don't respect and understand why people want only woman spaces. We must look at all the issues and not be blinded by one thing.

I believe women shouldn't put up with misogynist shit from any party, personally.

And the trans issue is about so much more than one thing. It demonstrates how little regard these parties hold women in, how easily they lie when it suits them, how little regard they actually have for scientific principles, how easily they abandon safeguarding principles when men shout loudly enough I could go on and on.