To be alarmed at the number of women who are throwing support behind causes that are clearly anti-woman?

[DorothyGaleFromKansas]

With the recent threads about flags/immigrants and Charlie Kirk etc, there seem to be a bewildering number of women supporting causes that directly go against their own interests, and it’s baffling and frankly a bit disturbing.

Reform have voted against tougher laws on stalking, sexual harassment and upskirting, against clamping down on revenge porn, and against further protections in the workplace. Farage cited Andrew Tate as “an important voice for men”.

Then you have Trump, who was found to have committed rape, forced himself into changing rooms where teenagers were undressing, made sexual comments about his own daughter, not to mention 34 other felonies, and that’s before we even get to the Epstein files.

Charlie Kirk said that women should only vote if they were voting for the candidate chosen by their husband, that women shouldn’t go on to higher education unless it was to find a husband, that women should have to submit to their husbands, and that little girls as young as 9 or 10 including his own daughters should be forced to give birth to babies conceived as a result of rape.

What has happened to us that there are so many women willing to endorse attitudes like this? And how do we fix it?! How have we sunk so low that there are women who think this is what we all deserve? It’s terrifying.

I was interested in whether you are thinking about how to solve the problems or if you think a bit of performative"calling it out" on MN is enough.

What do these "strong leaders" need to do to turn this around?

Who is FWR?

‘Feminism and Women’s Rights’ - shorthand for the Feminism (Sex and Gender Discussions) board. Found under the topic Feminism & Women’s Rights.

this post makes a good point that there has been a betrayal of what was expected by the Labour Party - and will make it easier for Reform to get in. . .

honest question though - how could the provision be improved? taxes would need to rise and already Rachel Reeves is getting stick for all the NI increases, I would prefer some kind of wealth tax on high earners and low tax paying companies but various economists say this would cause a money drain from the country

I don’t know what the answer will eventually be for Labour, we do know Reform want to drastically cut the welfare bill/state support and I think the conservatives do too

i genuinely don’t know how things can be improved for SEND provision or in these run down areas with years of underinvestment, but I’m sure simplistic arguments about ‘them stealing all our houses/women/jobs’ isn’t going to fix it

What has Graham Linehsn done thst is anti woman or misogynistic? Now if they were defending Neil Gaiman or Phillip Pullman I’d be raising both eyebrows but what has GL done?

I don't want to derail the thread and my post was largely in a response to someone who said that people are stupid to vote for reform because of policies regarding the NHS that they will bring in. Disclaimer I'm not a reform voter I've voted Labour in every general election except the last one when I refrained to vote.

But I will say that educating disabled children should be an absolute priority for any government, let alone left wing ones.

My children had a good education because I fought for support. They are now the other side of this so this was entirely under a Tory government. This means that they are now able to engage in society at a level they would not otherwise be able to do. They will therefore be able to contribute to the economy rather than be a drain on it.

Failing to educate children properly just kicks the problem down the road. These children will then become a burden on adult services and are more likely to be a burden on society.

Labour has taken away choice for SEN families by the addition of the 20% VAT on private schools as the small school option that provided answered the problem for a large number of families for whom the 20% additional fee makes it unaffordable.

On the one hand they are claiming that this is a leveller whilst proposing to remove provision from others.

Obviously there is no magic money tree but of all the things to actually cut!!!!

So it's a bit hypocritical to blame people/ call them stupid for looking at other options. Labour needs to sort itself out and to stop with policies that hurt the most vulnerable. Perhaps tax raises are the answer, but those are rather unpalatable for some reason aren't they!?

Yes I agree - there will be no solutions just by saying people are thinking the wrong things

unfortunately it seems that on the whole we have politicians (and enabling media) that have been making promises from Brexit onwards that haven’t been scrutinised and fact checked

Just gonna leave this here... I think i understand now why the widows speech was directed at now

Seems to be mainly men on the far right actions though , besieging hotels and what not. Over 80% male on the march yesterday. Whereas most demos are roughly 50/50?

OP Charlie Kirk was a type of preacher, not a politician. "Joining his cause" was akin to joining a church, or a humanist group- not placing a vote on him as the next PM

So choosing a way of life for yourself is not the same as choosing a way of life for others.
Its pretty anti woman to suggest that these women haven't spent time considering what they value in life for them. Many of them will want to be SAHM with a committed husband. As many have pointed out to you its pretty patronising to tell them that the alternative is they accept another way of life (your ideal) whereby they must experience other anti-women practices instead.
For example they must undress in any public leisure facility in front of any man who declares himself a woman- no matter what her own life experiences have taught her about men. Or a man impregnates her without commitment then pisses off to skip paying for it or tells her to just abort it. I can see where it would be attractive to find a man who is prepared to stand by her.

It’s a wide ranging thread, which talks about “hate crime” recording in general and the unsavoury TRA characters involved in this and their apparent hold over the police, it was also a live thread for the recent court hearing.

She never said they did. The poster reserved the right to make her own mind up rather than have other people's views forced on her whether by the late Mr Kirk or by you.

And I agree with her.

I agree OP. People can't see the wood for the trees. People are so concerned about men identifying as a women using a women's bathroom or immigrants that they are voting against their own interests. Farage made all these promises about cutting immigration and saving the NHS millions through Brexit and it was all lies yet people still support him. In fact the NHS is worse because we lost so many good nurses and doctors that came to work from other countries. It's mind boggling. Look at America. Tax cuts for the rich and cutting Medicare and benefits for those who really need it. Taking away woman's rights to choose to have a baby. Prioritising the right to bare arms while school children are being shot. Trump is deliberately dividing citizens instead of trying to represent all Americans and bring the nation together. He even got Ghiselle Maxwell transferred to a low security, softer prison. You couldn't make it up. The powers that be are making us fear each other, blame minorities for our problems to distract us while they line their and their mates pockets. It is actually terrifying.

When people are commenting on such preachers as Charlie etc they need to be very careful not to mix up the words "should" and "must".

Saying "a wife should vote the same as her husband" is not the same as "must" nor is it a call to change laws in the country to take away women's voting rights.

To many people marriage is built on certain foundations whereby the husband and wife work cohesively with the same ideals, religious and political opinions, and morals and should be aligned from the start.
To other people the opposite is true of course but he was expressing his opinion on marriage. Anyone who disagrees have the option not to marry him or those who share his beliefs.

The same applies to anything else he said

Spot on.

The real issue is why are these the only choices? Why are women faced with misogyny on all sides? Why do we not have a single party that’s prepared to stand up for women?

It’s an utter disgrace that in the 21st century women have been disenfranchised.

Imagine that being our choice. You can have abortion, ladies, OR female only sports. Pick one. You can have basic safeguarding OR you can have equal pay. No wonder women aren't voting.

What @BunfightBetty said. It seems that people here just want to berate women, rather than think about how to get them on side.

Or that they’re voting for misogynistic bigots like Trump, because of the trans issue.

I agree it’s a massive problem.

And not one that’s going to be solved by other women handwaving their concerns away @Plastictreees- I thought you didn’t want to bring up trans issues?

I thought you didn’t want to talk about the trans issue?

Given ALL parties are pushing misogynistic policies, and there isn’t a single palatable option for women, why berate some women for opting for a different party for you? We’re all faced with the choice of voting against our own interests one way or another, and there isn’t currently a way around this other than spoiling your ballot, which is a totally unacceptable state of affairs.

We need to work out why this is the case and what to do about it.

Absolutely. The hand-waving of concerns has shot the left in the foot over and over and over again - for decades in fact - and yet they NEVER learn. It’s incredibly stupid. And incredibly frustrating if you would like to vote on the left, given a decent, fair set of polices that don’t totally screw women over.

Because the alternative are going along with the trope that men can become women and want to give away women’s right to sex based spaces and sports.

This has been established many times in this thread but seeing as you brought it up (thought you weren’t going to discuss ‘trans’ issues?) It’s a male issue actually, no one is bothered about females who identify differently.

How is being sneery about women who don’t want to share certain spaces with men with special feelings help anything?

I personally wouldn’t vote for an odious man like Trump who goes against all my morals and beliefs, just because he backed one issue I cared about. Trump does not care about women’s rights, it’s a political move for him and it’s sad to see women falling for it. There absolutely does need to be better political representation for women and issues that affect them. That is very clear.

Well. He clearly doesn't need your vote anyway!