To be alarmed at the number of women who are throwing support behind causes that are clearly anti-woman?

[DorothyGaleFromKansas]

With the recent threads about flags/immigrants and Charlie Kirk etc, there seem to be a bewildering number of women supporting causes that directly go against their own interests, and it’s baffling and frankly a bit disturbing.

Reform have voted against tougher laws on stalking, sexual harassment and upskirting, against clamping down on revenge porn, and against further protections in the workplace. Farage cited Andrew Tate as “an important voice for men”.

Then you have Trump, who was found to have committed rape, forced himself into changing rooms where teenagers were undressing, made sexual comments about his own daughter, not to mention 34 other felonies, and that’s before we even get to the Epstein files.

Charlie Kirk said that women should only vote if they were voting for the candidate chosen by their husband, that women shouldn’t go on to higher education unless it was to find a husband, that women should have to submit to their husbands, and that little girls as young as 9 or 10 including his own daughters should be forced to give birth to babies conceived as a result of rape.

What has happened to us that there are so many women willing to endorse attitudes like this? And how do we fix it?! How have we sunk so low that there are women who think this is what we all deserve? It’s terrifying.

What Flirts said.

No voting button OP. YABU.

Thanks for that. I was completely unaware of Atwood and have never read any of her works.

Kirk said repeatedly that women should submit to their husbands and husbands should lead. He was not talking about mutual submission.

I view women who fawn over abusive male trans rights activists and other left wing misogynists (of which there are many, including on this site) in much the same way I view women on the right who want to give women’s rights away.

I think one reason is that many women simply do not recognise that the rights they have NOW (and we do have many more than only 50 years ago, let alone 100 or 150 years ago) is something we should cherish because we could easily loose all of that.
You only start saying that views such as ‘women should submit to their husbands’ (regardless of what said that) aren’t important vs let’s say ‘immigrants’ unless you think those rights are so imbedded that they’ll never change,

Oh good! Another anti-American post! This time disguised as concern for women’s safety.

Since you know so much, OP, please do let us know which of our president’s 34 felonies are a threat to women? The felonies relate to financial crimes so I don’t even see why you felt the need to even mention that. Is your Angela’s tax evasion a threat to women? Because it’s pretty much the same crime. But that doesn’t fit your narrative, of course.

I think you’d have better luck spreading your word if you didn’t come across like you have all the answers and anyone who thinks differently is a massive idiot.

Ironically the first thing I learned about this CK guy is he was basically Ben Shapiro 2 except that he listened to his audience and didn’t make them feel stupid.

Great. You do you.

No I have not seen “open celebration”. I have seen mockery but as Kirk has also mocked deaths (and even attacks) of those he dislikes I cannot bring myself to care. All part of the same cesspool. He contributed to that same culture that would laugh at his death.

Women make up a majority of pro-lifers, about 60%. These views are valid too, and many pro-choice men are acting in self-interest (uninhibited sex without consequences) rather than women's rights. They often believe it's acceptable to pressure women into abortions, especially by withholding support.

The "pro-choice" side are also typically only about abortion access - and do nothing at all to support women who want to keep their pregnancies in challenging circumstances, or who are being coerced into unwanted abortions. This is not pro-women at all.

and with both, I probably agree on some things and not others, so I could find common cause with both groups at one time or another. Such is life. People aren’t one dimensional cut outs.

Evidence of Kirk mocking deaths of those he dislikes, please.

I completely agree.

Source?

There definitely has been open celebration - people have lost their jobs over it. What’s your thoughts on that @JHound? Justified, poster stupidity with consequences, or what?

You need to reread the chapter where Offred describes how she lost her job, and with it how society was just before the rise of Gilead. It mentioned Pornomats, Feels on Wheels vans and BunDle Buggies and what a nuisance they had been. Her mother used to go on protests (porn riots, abortion riots). No children walked to school any more because there had been too many disappearances.

Later on, just before the Commander takes her to Jezebel’s, she describes the stories in the press about violence against women and children, and the safety measures she had to take to keep herself safe.

You first.

in the number of the most “vile misogynistic men on the planet” there would be a number of trans rights activists, both transgender themselves and otherwise. I’m sorry your naivety prevents you seeing this.

I don’t have much of an opinion on the views of CK, considering I hadn’t heard of him before the shooting. I am of the opinion that being shot for debating perfectly legal opinions (even if they may be unsavoury) is abhorrent. I’m not that’s throwing support to any ‘anti-women’ ideals.

And I’m beginning to think that there aren’t any public figures that are 100% pro-women. On the one hand we have restrictions over our reproductive rights, women being silenced, literally hidden away from public view, removed from jobs, not aloud to speak in public, but spotted next to an open window… on the other side our we’ve had our meaning of women re-framed to include men, rending our sex (and therefore sex based rights) meaningless, the rise of violent dangerous porn and abuse during sex since as common-place, run of the mill and the rent-a-womb surrogacy which particularly targets poor women.

I’m minded of that Dworkin quote: The difference between left-wing and right-wing when it comes to women is only about where exactly on our necks their boots should be placed. To right-wing men, we are private property. To left-wing men, we are public property. In either case, we are not considered to be humans. We are things.

Wow!

When there is a school shooting
its all "Thoughts and Prayers" but no action to prevent recurrence.

I am sure that Charlie Kirk's family would want the same.

What’s wrong with being a trad wife if that’s your choice?

"Most women"?

Wow. Major projection.

I don't think trans women are women. I think it's a depressing and sexist belief system. The blind insistence that our sex doesn't affect our life experiences and the risks and opportunities we are dealt combined with a desire to separate people into supposed "man", "woman" or "non-binary" personalities seems counter to everything I thought feminism stood for.

Nevertheless, while the genderist movement clearly has its share of nasty, fetishistic men who seem to have a disproportionate presence and voice, I realise most people in it, whether "trans" or allies, especially the younger ones, are coming from a genuine place of wanting less sexism and more tolerance of difference, and even if they have not really thought through what sexism actually means, why it happens and who it happens to yet I have every confidence they will get there over time.

So I for one absolutely would stand with them and not the people who want to restrict women's roles and power within society because of our sex.

The sad thing is, while I would stand with them even though I do not think trans women are women, I'm pretty sure they would not stand with me.

I don’t get what your point is. They’ve arrested a suspect, which they would hope to do in all shootings, no?

@talkinpeace