My son has gone on the march

[funkadelic]

Hi, have been on here years but only lurk, don’t post. But today is the day.
I am in bits. My 22yr old DS is in London on this march. I am shaking and utterly appalled. We differ on politics massively and have done for some time. I work in education, have travelled and am bit of a lefty hippy but to be honest it’s becoming more about values and morals. He is fully immersed in the manosphere algorithm and I’ve always thought he is exploring himself and things and have chats about why he has the opinions he does and try and understand his point of view. I try not to belittle him but try and get him to critically think about things.
But this I can’t deal with. I am so upset that my son has gone to this, and that it is something that is so far away from me and my values, something that I thought I had instilled in him as well.
I am totally aware that it’s triggered embarrassment but that is my issue and I’m not putting that on him. He is still my son and I love him and his passion and interest in the world, just in something I believe is so wrong and makes me sad.
Please talk some sense into me.

I would definitely avoid arguing with him about it. Express interest & listen to what he says & look for any truths in it (because this will make him less defensive & more open.) Say that although you disagree with much of the ideology you think there’s often something to be learnt from considering opposing views, & often a nugget of truth in them. And maybe ask if he’d like to come with you on the Palestine March on the 11th Oct!

You can’t dictate your children’s views- just encourage them in habits of discussion and analysis, by example. One of mine was lurching in a very right wing direction but to my astonishment he has now started reading about Marxism & talking about crony capitalism & how using the flag for racist purposes demeans & insults British identity. Young people’s views change!

If he is genuinely concerned about women and girls, there's a shared value and it suggests he's coming from a good place.
Perhaps try suggesting he listens to different women's perspectives, for example, the statement Women's Aid made recently about this issue. If he's open/intellectually aware enough, perhaps explain some history around the racist trope of non-whites "taking" white women and how that has been and is used to manipulate well-meaning, caring men into blaming certain groups.

OP my dd is 21, we have wildly different ideas about trans issues.
We tend not to talk about it now as it just descends into an argument.
But she is a lovely, sweet girl, who I adore, much as you do your son,
He is so so young, influenced by his mates and all the social media hate, in a few years time I bet he will be mortified he attended today.

You're shaking?

The organiser is far right. The million people estimate is way, way off.

OP I think you just have to keep communicating with him.

Hello Nigel!

Um, protesting against genocide, children being blown to bits and starved vs raise the flags/stop the boats/they’re stealing our jobs/women/benefits racism, I would have thought it was fairly obvious?

I have a close family member who has a belief, and my belief is the opposite to theirs. We both feel the other has arrived at our position through an incorrect interpretation of information on the issue. They feel that the opinions I hold because of my belief support things that cause great harm to others. I feel the same way about theirs. We salvage our relationship by telling ourselves the other isn't a bad person but misguided in terms of this issue. We speak of it rarely, and when we do, try to see the intention behind the views, which for both of us is to protect others. In this way we can continue to see each other as good people who have taken a wrong turn on this.

To say what?

"Free speech" march organised by Tommy Robinson

Can you come on this thread and explain what the wooden crosses being packed for the freedom of speech march are for, please?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5409337-tommy-robinson-hitler-and-wooden-crosses

God forbid our children think or feel differently to us 😱

This. There is nuance in this whole discussion. The left made a huge mistake in trying to shut down open discussion on this topic and several others. 'Racists! Transphobes!' And now they're finally seeing - too late - that those tactics only work for so long. Those tactics make otherwise normal, moderate people feel lied to and overlooked and in the end, furious. So they have a chance now to pivot and say 'We got this wrong and we're sorry. We shut down discussion of genuine and legitimate concerns. Tell us what you're afraid of. We will listen to you and we will try to address your concerns with sincerity.'

I really hope they do because if they don't, we're fucked.

You need to accept that his views are different to yours and get over it. Saying you are 'in bits'is ridiculous.

I have serious concerns about immigration. I want it to be controlled and I want to know who is coming in to my country. I want our borders to be secure and I want us as a country to decide who enters and who stays. That isn't currently happening. The government don't seem to be listening. People get to the point where they feel frustrated that their concerns arent being listened to, so they start attending marches and other events that allow them to have their voices heard.

Obviously it isn't ok if there is violence and extreme racism taking place at these marches but there are also going to be a lot of people attending that have the same viewpoints as I do, sensible, reasoned concerns who just want their voicesto be heard, and they don't see any other way of that happening, going on how immigration has been dealt with up until now.

Which camp out of these two does your son fit into?

The main issue I see it is there is nowhere for people to “march” unless you are at the extreme of either view. So you would I imagine end up feeling you have to pick a side with extremes that you don’t necessarily believe in. Was ever thus I suppose.

What a person can't agree with freedom of speech without being labelled a racist now 🙄

Race card declined. Jog on Kier!!

And the response to the effects on services would be go to London, stay in a hotel, eat lunch in a cafe, dinner a restaurant, take a taxi, become unwell and go to a hospital, and you’ll see that its immigrants who are keeping all these services going.

It’s good that you’re venting here - as you know, pushing back too hard with him will just back him into a corner. I’d do a casual debrief tomorrow: who were the speakers, what did they say, did you learn anything new - oh right, he said x, that’s funny cos I always believed it was y. What sort of people were there, were they folk you’d want to hang out with irl?

One of my reflections after Charlie Kirk’s murder was how many people talked about his debating style, which to me wasn’t debate at all. Debate only happens when you’re prepared to change your mind, imo. So maybe think about how you’re role-modelling that to him. I know my own DS thinks I’m really dogmatic so that’s something I’m going to work on. Be prepared to change your mind on a couple of things. A pp sort of nailed it, it’s that thing about it being OK to express concerns about immigration without being racist. I AM concerned people are getting in small boats - but that’s because I don’t want them to drown, not because I think the boats are full of potential rapists, that sort of thing.

Well, presumably not, because then he wouldn’t be matching under a far-right banner?

Yaxley-Lennon's supporters are off to a good start.

The Metropolitan Police said five arrests had been made:

Two men were arrested on suspicion of "GBH-level [grievous bodily harm] assault" after a participant in the Stand Up To Racism demonstration was assaulted in Victoria Embankment Gardens, the Met said. The victim sustained a head injury and was given first aid by officers

A member of the public was arrested on suspicion of assaulting a steward at Trans Pride, and another man was arrested on suspicion of assaulting an emergency worker and a racially aggravated public order offence after a police officer was kicked

One man was arrested on suspicion of criminal damage and a racially aggravated public order offence after allegedly snapping a Palestinian flag and making a racially abusive remark.

You’re in bits and shaking? Maybe that’s a clue that your reaction is wildly disproportionate…

OP does he live at home?

Yes, this. If you can stay calm. I would be really upset too.(Seriously, WTF is he thinking..)

Wonder who did these jobs before mass immigration?

I wonder…