Had you heard of Charlie Kirk before yesterday?

[Havetoagree]

Just that really? I hadn’t and wondering if I’m the only one. And why is it such a big story? I guess the association with trump. What would be the equivalent level of fame over here?

Clearly you can’t have watched any of his ‘debates’

in your call for compassion remember what he said about empathy. We’re just honouring his wishes.

Speaking as another pro-choice atheist who is totally against gun violence, I absolutely condemn his murder. However, he is now being eulogised when the majority of his views were abhorrent and, in some cases, completely hypocritical.

He has said that life begins at the moment of conception and that life is sacred so abortion at any point in the pregnancy and even in cases of rape and incest is a mortal sin. However, he was perfectly comfortable with children dying in school shootings as he believed that accepting some deaths through gun violence was a reasonable price to pay for having the 2nd amendment and the right to bear arms.

He refered to affirmative action as 'stealing a white person's slot' and that Michelle Obama and other black women 'do not have the brain processing power to be taken seriously'.

He was very articulate and made his points well but he was still a racist homophobe who was happy to accept dead children as collateral damage as long as American citizens could keep hold of their guns. And, like many conservative Christians, he had no problem supporting an adjudicated sex offender who talks about 'grabbing women by the pussy' and paying hush money to a porn star to cover up his affair with her.

Never heard of him before.

i think closeted (and open) racists are latching onto his case because they need something like that to latch on. Plus a bunch of Putinbots

Very sorry for his children, especially as his daughter was just there, and his death is now for all to see in all gory details.

but can’t believe that his death is more publicised that another school shooting!

It’s not an immediate consequence, but unfortunately it’s a very real risk, especially when you decide to build your brand on violent opinions in a country with a ridiculous access to guns (that he so ardently defended).

Hopefully his children will grow up with more sense and see that guns are not the solution.

Great post.

I don't think it is gracefup or respectful though to say women on the Pill automatically 'crazy and bitter'

. Or women over 30 'past their prime of attractiveness'.

Or say having gay relationships is like being an alcoholic or drug addict

Or say that the actions of the 3 Phoenix school board members was bc they were LGBT so had to 'recruit not reproduce" (a direct Anita Bryant quote), even though they all had kids of their own.

Or say Ketanji Brown Jackson and Michelle Obama's achievements are bc they are stupid so only got where they did bc they were favoured for being black?

Or say abortion is worse than the Holocaust

I have seen the "black women do not have brain processing power" quote, several times on MN and elsewhere over the last few days. Can you back up this quote? When I tried to research it, all I found was a video of him insulting 4 specific black women, not great but quite different from the generalised racist statement it has been made out to be.
If it is indeed false, do you agree that fabricating or repeating fabricated quotes about a recently murdered man is unethical?

For those of you who 'respected' him how do you condone the fact that he advocated stoning gays and also said dozens of other deplorable things including racist comments?

I don't for one second agree with what happened but we can't forget the disgraceful things he believed and said just because of his murder.

'Clearly' nothing. You are wrong, but don't let that stop you. In in your desire to not show compassion to those who loved him and witnessed his violent death, remember what he said about sympathy.

You are honouring nothing but murder and wickedness and evil.

True. And it is also possible to be a great debater but to have unreasonable ideas. Sometimes being good with words can disguise the fact that what you're saying has no basis in fact or logic.

I didn't agree with most of his views but I do not believe in gloating in the murder of someone because they have very different political views to me.
Ultimately, in doing that, you make yourself as bad as the person whose death you gloat over.

Yes. Same age as you

I’m mid 50s and was aware of who he was. Also do not agree with much of his values (his being christian right-wing so has some views about gun law and women’s rights which don’t sit well with me) but he was a thoughtful young man who promoted free speech and respectful dialogue, someone who believed that we need to be able to talk and debate with people of opposing views so that we can all learn to better understand each other.

But regardless of his personal views - NO ONE deserves to be shot/murdered and especially not for what they have said/tweeted.

Regarding free speech, this is written in his Wikipedia page.

”… which sought to fire or silence professors and educators through targeted harassment campaigns for sharing opinions opposed by Turning Point”.

So he pursued people who were opposed to him. Unfortunately, that’s the opposite of free speech.

RingoJuice argues the stoning gays comment was a joke.

I think it's possible he believec that given the circles he ran in w Christian nationalists, but that video is not enough.

I hadn't but my husband had from the Facebook videos suggested to him.

I am American and have plenty of Republican Relatives who loudly promote their views on SM. I listen to many American politics-related podcasts many times a week. I didn't know CK's name.

I can't see how this murder is inherently more meaningful than when MLK Jnr or Malcolm X were murdered or civil rights activists were lynched in the South in the 1960s... they also said things that some people found wildly controversial. I wonder if their murders were labeled as huge threats to free speech.

Hard to believe that any murder isn't horrific. Seems weird that word keeps getting used, like this is an especially more horrific murder. Because you can easily find the video to watch it, I guess? Did you think other murders were usually pretty?

Preachy dullard, classy 🙄
Just because I'm saying something you disagree with.

The murder of Charlie Kirk, a father to two young daughters, is what the radical left’s demonisation of anyone who doesn’t share their warped, woke views leads to: i.e. the political assassination of a man who was engaging in political DEBATE. The radical left couldn’t win the argument with Kirk so they silenced him. Same as they always do, silence, cancel, censor, smear, misrepresent, and now this.

Perhaps the likes of people some on here condoning this action (I read the abhorrent comments the other night), and those branding Farage and Reform as a Fascist, and calling for him and his supporters to be strung up, cancelled, jailed, etc. should ponder on that for a second?

Let us also not forget that our own Prime Minister branded people who were upset about small girls being stabbed to death as far right thugs. The left doubled down on this and they then used the judicial system to punish anyone who stepped out of line.

The left seem to have become so far separated from the fundamental Christian and family values that gave us the very freedom and tolerance, that until recently, we used to enjoy here in the West, that I really wonder where this is all heading?

I have always struggled to understand the shift in leftist mindset. The people of free love and freedom of expression in the 60’s and 70’s who I could relate to, seems to have morphed into a bunch of people projecting (what they perceive to be) their virtuousness and moral superiority, yet underneath is a seething hatred of those who do not share their beliefs.

I guess the people who put their life on the line for Britain during two world wars, to give us our hard-won freedom, must now be turning in their graves to see what has become of the ungrateful and frankly anti-British left wing establishment who seem intent on wrecking everything that our brave soldiers once fought for. Anyone who voted for the traitorous Labour party, or who does not unconditionally condemn this awful murder, should be utterly ashamed of yourselves IMO.

Interesting also that he was happy for turning point to be sponsored by a sex offender against underage girl, bc he was 'a good man who did something bad years ago and is sorry.'

You'd think he would have advocated the death penalty instead, given he said watching a public executions shoyld be an initiation.

A 21 second fragment of a debate doesn’t prove anything and certainly not what you’re claiming. They were discussing life for black people in the US in the 1940s, many years after the abolition of slavery.

I disagree with you acting as the thread police, yes. It’s desperately dull and controlling.

Yes I had. He debated well and was respectful.

Shocked and saddened by the news.

No. But I'm aware of extremist views, the debates around free speech and the controversy around gun laws. Anyone who has even a passing interest in any of these things understands the man's death has significance.

I hope by 'family values' you don"/ mean you are against gay rights. That's how it is often used in US. Ofc it has other meanings too!

I’m 32 and hadn’t heard of him - when I saw him on the news I looked him up and was shocked by his views - it’s sad anyone dies for their political views but he wasn’t a hero - he hated every group except white men