Page 30 | Had you heard of Charlie Kirk before yesterday?

Havetoagree · 2025-09-11T20:28:21+00:00

Just that really? I hadn’t and wondering if I’m the only one. And why is it such a big story? I guess the association with trump. What would be the equivalent level of fame over here?

EasternStandard · 12/09/2025 07:33

PreciousTatas · 12/09/2025 07:18

These types of people are definitely not better than he was, and I disagreed with nearly everything he said.

I say nearly everything because I watched him say that it was vital that we all continued to talk to each other, disagreement or not, because bad things happen when people stop talking and violence is never the answer.

So anyone crowing over his death, is demonstrably more evil than he was.

Not that those thick enough to be doing so would ever be able to see themselves as 'the baddies'.

Or see the future they are ushering in.

When you cheer on the dismantling of democracy, mob rule takes over. I think the Internet has given many people the impression that their 'mob' is far larger than it actually is, so they mistakenly believe that their side will 'win'. When every single person will lose.

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Yes agree with you and pp.

InWalksBarberalla · 12/09/2025 07:34

Chobby · 12/09/2025 07:27

I think people are missing this. He said some deaths are worth it, for their right to bear arms. Including school shootings. So it stands to reason that he’d believe his own death to be ‘worth it’.

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Seriously nobody is missing that he said that and many people are using it in the way you are. This quote is every where you look.
A reasonable proportion of Americans support the right to bear arms - doesn't mean it's okay to shoot them all.

YourLemonTiger · 12/09/2025 07:34

Butchyrestingface · 12/09/2025 07:21

They didn’t say he did deserve to be murdered.

Why do you feel the need to preach at people who haven’t said this?

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I feel alot of people (not just on this thread) have lost sight of what a democracy looks like and instead see the law for 'good' people.

There are quite a few people on this thread with the attitude of 'he shouldn't have been shot but he was a horrible person' . The 'but' undermines the first half of the sentence and does give the impression that in their opinion CK had it coming.

Also, I love preaching to people. Bless you my child 😂

Chobby · 12/09/2025 07:35

44PumpLane · 12/09/2025 07:32

I think that given how widley reported this is, and how available the full footage of him being shot is, that they may not have any clue now what was going on, but that as they continue to grow up without their Dad they will be super aware of what has happened and I'm sure it will be incredibly traumatic for them (as it would be for anyone who loses a parent with such brutality).

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Remember though that he believed it to be worth it, for the second amendment. Their mother will have to explain to them that he believed deaths by shooting, including school shootings, to be a price worth paying for that right.

Butchyrestingface · 12/09/2025 07:36

Namechangey23 · 12/09/2025 07:29

He was behind Trumps leadership bids and especially influential with young people. He was a charismatic speaker and for that you don't have to be particularly intelligent (I mean look at Trump!). He spoke in a way that clearly reached people.

One thing he said was that people dying each year from gun crime was just the price American's had to pay for keeping their sacred second amendment, and he was willing to pay that price. I bet when he said that though, he probably never thought it would be himself paying that price. It's sad for his family, but he was delusional not having security given the sort of racist, misogynist, fascist, pro life, anti LGBTQ views he was spouting and well, US gun crime stats.

I believe he was killed with a long range assault rifle. Pretty sure any nut job can just go into a supermarket in some US states and get tooled up with one of these plus ammo without any checks. Anyone who thinks that's a good idea is nuts.

I hear in the UK now children in schools are already having to do emergency lockdown drills similar to US. Mostly because we have a similar problem with knives and illegal weapons. At least though they are not so easily obtainable otherwise our problems would be far worse!

I believe he was killed with a long range assault rifle. Pretty sure any nut job can just go into a supermarket in some US states and get tooled up with one of these plus ammo without any checks

The Daily Mail had an ‘expert’ sniper (ex-army) commenting yesterday and he seemed to be of the view it was a non-professional hit and achievable by anyone who’d been to a firing range 4-5 times.

I was quite shocked by that (to the point almost of disbelief) because I had thought you’d need to be terribly skilled and practised to make that shot. The idea that someone with a few hours training could do it is terrifying.

Chobby · 12/09/2025 07:36

InWalksBarberalla · 12/09/2025 07:34

Seriously nobody is missing that he said that and many people are using it in the way you are. This quote is every where you look.
A reasonable proportion of Americans support the right to bear arms - doesn't mean it's okay to shoot them all.

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No. But he literally said that a number of shootings are a price Americans have to pay for that right. Sadly he’s now one of those who have paid that price.

Lovelyview · 12/09/2025 07:37

User37482 · 11/09/2025 21:53

Yes, I didn’t agree with his views but it was a refreshing change to see someone willing to engage with people he disagreed with vs banging pans outside a debate like a giant toddler.

The reality is we have got so used to people shutting down debate rather than just having it. I saw this with women's rights issues. If you went on the BBC and you were a perfectly reasonable person (thinking people like Helen Joyce) you would still be painted as a bigot and extremist.

Our society is full of children who can’t cope with disagreement and celebrate the death of people we disagree with because we have lost all moral reason (I’m an atheist btw). Grown adults crow over murder as if it were a video game and not a human life. I thought his views on abortion were frankly dehumanising to women and girls. I think he was brilliant and exposing the shallowness of identity politics. I could hold both thoughts in my head at the same time and not be happy he died. We have become so debased as a society that people actually celebrate murder publicly with no sense of shame whatsoever.

I’ve also been thinking about how we use the word tolerance. People keep using the word inaccurately. They talk about tolerance for people they have no problem with and often agree with. We are only actually tolerant with people we disagree with, we refrain from harming them and despite the gulf of opinion Between someone like Charlie Kirk and me he demonstrated that by actually speaking to them. Often they failed to articulate their ideas well because they lived in bubbles where they never had to justify their beliefs. But we need that as a society, we need people to be able to articulate their positions and to be able to debate effectively. We rely too much on emotion and censure.

This exactly. I hadn't heard of Charlie Kirk but the principle that ideas are there to be debated seems to be lost at the moment. Cancelling people who you disagree with is never going to work in a democracy.

Teaforthetotal · 12/09/2025 07:37

Butchyrestingface · 12/09/2025 07:28

His children were watching and they will never recover from that trauma as well.

His children are aged 3 and 1 and likely won’t have had the foggiest what was going on.

His wife is a different matter. I hope she and the kids weren’t anywhere near the front but in reality, I suspect they probably were.

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For those who used to follow him,did his wife and children generally come to the debates? I found it surprising that his kids were in the crowd,especially as they were toddler aged. (Not saying this was wrong, I am just curious.)

ExtraOnions · 12/09/2025 07:37

Nope … just another gun death, in the increasingly lawless USA. There are hundreds every day, it death is no more, or less, a tragedy than that others.
It would be good if the lawmakers were as upset about all the other deaths, and did something about them … but it’s just another shoulder shrug, and move on.
If you are in a country, where those in positions of influence, advocate against gun control, more people will be shot ..

Underthinker · 12/09/2025 07:38

Butchyrestingface · 12/09/2025 07:28

His children were watching and they will never recover from that trauma as well.

His children are aged 3 and 1 and likely won’t have had the foggiest what was going on.

His wife is a different matter. I hope she and the kids weren’t anywhere near the front but in reality, I suspect they probably were.

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You dont think a 3 year old would be traumatised by watching their father get shot?

Butchyrestingface · 12/09/2025 07:40

YourLemonTiger · 12/09/2025 07:34

I feel alot of people (not just on this thread) have lost sight of what a democracy looks like and instead see the law for 'good' people.

There are quite a few people on this thread with the attitude of 'he shouldn't have been shot but he was a horrible person' . The 'but' undermines the first half of the sentence and does give the impression that in their opinion CK had it coming.

Also, I love preaching to people. Bless you my child 😂

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People are entitled to express the viewpoint that he was a terrible person with abhorrent views.

Nobody has said they think his murder was okay. They shouldn’t have to KEEP saying “… but of course his murder was terrible and unjustified” just to satisfy some preachy dullard. Just quit it.

Chocolatebiscuit90 · 12/09/2025 07:41

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 11/09/2025 22:26

Did you read what she said?

Why are people jumping to such conclusions?

Someone asked what there was to respect with him and I have an answer for myself.

He believed these conversations needed to happen. He believed opposing views being discussed ensured a greater sense of seeing each other as human beings. He believed these conversations were needed because once we see each other as human that lowers the risk of violence.

I respect that he started conversations with people he disagreed with. As we know all too well in Mumsnet those conversations are exceedingly rare.

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The thing is, I don’t think these conversations DO need to happen. Are guns bad? Yes, common sense. We don’t need to debate them and keep them (they are banned here). Should men and women have equal rights? Yes they should. Is racism bad? Oh, so bad. Should women be able to have abortions? Yes, it’s healthcare.

WE DON’T NEED TO DEBATE THIS STUFF. He was an extremist. I cannot fathom why anyone except a white man who felt a bit powerless and wanted to steal a bit more power from someone else would want to go along with the horror he spouted.

BellissimoGecko · 12/09/2025 07:44

No, but my 21yo dd had and was very shocked.

Butchyrestingface · 12/09/2025 07:45

Underthinker · 12/09/2025 07:38

You dont think a 3 year old would be traumatised by watching their father get shot?

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I think they may very well not a clue what has just happened. These things tend to happen very, very fast.

I witnessed a shooting in my 20s at close range and didn’t understand what was happening initially. Thinking of a 3 year old, the confusion is likely to be far greater and will hopefully be protective for them.

i think the PP has a good point though about the effect of the availability of the footage later on when the kids are older. . Hopefully the close-up footage will have been scrubbed from the internet by then.

I wondered about the Kennedy kids and their wider family. How did they manage to avoid the ubiquitous footage of JFK’s assassination? Did they even try? Knowing it was out there and so widely viewed must have been awful for them.

Rewis · 12/09/2025 07:45

He often used alternative truths and made up dacts in his debates to support his point. Unfortunately, he was often debating youngsters who didn't know how to challenge it or he just spoke over it. I'm sure there has been some good debates over the years but I've seen so many bad ones that I can't get behind them "great debator". It is one thing to have opinions and another thing to present your opinion as facts with made up evidence.

RingoJuice · 12/09/2025 07:46

Underthinker · 12/09/2025 07:38

You dont think a 3 year old would be traumatised by watching their father get shot?

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She reportedly tried to run to him, because she was afraid of the loud noise 🥺😔

LeaAndDer · 12/09/2025 07:47

Never heard of him, don’t even know what he was about.

BellissimoGecko · 12/09/2025 07:48

As for the idea that he wanted to debate ideas… I have watched some of his ‘debating’ this morning and what it seemed to consist of was shouting down the woman he was debating with, not letting her finish, and telling her she shouldn’t have sex before marriage. (Debate was about abortion). Typical mansplaining. He had some abhorrent, extremist, misogynistic views.

Butchyrestingface · 12/09/2025 07:49

RingoJuice · 12/09/2025 07:46

She reportedly tried to run to him, because she was afraid of the loud noise 🥺😔

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If true, that would suggest she didn’t realise he’d been shot and had blood streaming out of him. Little kids are scared of blood. Poor wee soul.

Teaforthetotal · 12/09/2025 07:50

Chocolatebiscuit90 · 12/09/2025 07:41

The thing is, I don’t think these conversations DO need to happen. Are guns bad? Yes, common sense. We don’t need to debate them and keep them (they are banned here). Should men and women have equal rights? Yes they should. Is racism bad? Oh, so bad. Should women be able to have abortions? Yes, it’s healthcare.

WE DON’T NEED TO DEBATE THIS STUFF. He was an extremist. I cannot fathom why anyone except a white man who felt a bit powerless and wanted to steal a bit more power from someone else would want to go along with the horror he spouted.

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I'm with you here. If he gave these debates into a vacuum it wouldn't have been so bad but within the Maga context, they fuelled the fire of hate in America. I think a lot of posters here are conflating the UK political context but what's been going on in America since the first Trump presidency leans towards extremism. I do feel sad for what will happen next in their political story.

Bruminbrum · 12/09/2025 07:50

TheJoyOfWriting · 12/09/2025 00:20

He was not a white supremacist. Please provide evidence.

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Everything he ever said on race and dei

refer to his comment about the black pilot

and how black woman do not have brain processing power

he also hated women or are you going to pretend he didn’t do that either

Goggleboxermum · 12/09/2025 07:51

Yes I remember seeing his video where a woman that had been raped by her father,as a young girl, had the baby, so gave birth to her brothers/son he was about 3/4 years old took him to one of his events and held her son/brotther up in the crowd and said his is the product of rape
and everyone cheered

so I thought his views on abortion we’re horrendous

but I agreed with his views n that’s its a huge lose for society that parents are not able to say home with their babies
and that really then just ends up damaging society
not a popular view point on here, I know, but I can only see how that’s going to get worse and worse esp with this free childcare from 9 months
and even seen adverts about that on here saying how it will help build baby’s confidence and independence
which I find shocking as no baby needs that! They need a secure loving attachment ideally to a parent or family member when only babies

i think he gained popularity with his views about trans
but the tide has generally turned on that now esp since the Supreme Court case
i think probably 90 plus percent don’t want biological males in women’s toilets or in women’s sport
and it doesn’t feel like that has become Clear now
but no doubt he gained a few supporters from that

I agree with other posters that if you watch the video with him debate n with Cambridge students they wipe the floor with him

whatever his views are, we should all be free to voice or thoughts as that’s how we improve and change and learn to see things differently

it’s like we can’t talk freely anymore about things and actaully one thing I do really respect about mumsnet is that they did allow everyone on here to openly talk about the whole trans issue
where as most places just wanted to stop anyone talking about it
we can’t improve things if we have no places to debate things

he or anyone else should not be shot and killed for his views

Thegreatestoftheseislove · 12/09/2025 07:51

He appears to me to have been a man who spoke his thoughts and ideas with conviction and passion, but was equally passionate about hearing and discussing opposing views with grace and good humour. A rare talent these days.

Many people have no idea how to debate differing points of view without misrepresenting the opposing view, twisting the essence of what is said, and becoming personal. As demonstrated on this thread and others. Play the ball, not the player.

I hope he is now at peace with the God he believed in. I hope those who loved him most will find the peace that passes all understanding, as they deal with the horror they witnessed, and the sudden violent death of their daddy, husband, son, friend. In his words: "When you stop having a human connection with someone you disagree with, it becomes a lot easier to want to commit violence against that group person".

Even if you hated him and the principles he stood for, have some bloody compassion for those who loved him and who witnessed his violent death.

LakieLady · 12/09/2025 07:52

BadgesforBadgers · 11/09/2025 23:17

Holy christ...

You must be....well I don't know.

He was a nasty piece of work, the worse of us and even more evil for trying to convert the gullible into sharing his abhorrent views.

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I did a fair bit of reading about him yesterday, after the shooting. I was truly shocked at some of his views, especially on women's rights and race.

But no-one deserves to die for their opinions.

Butchyrestingface · 12/09/2025 07:52

BellissimoGecko · 12/09/2025 07:48

As for the idea that he wanted to debate ideas… I have watched some of his ‘debating’ this morning and what it seemed to consist of was shouting down the woman he was debating with, not letting her finish, and telling her she shouldn’t have sex before marriage. (Debate was about abortion). Typical mansplaining. He had some abhorrent, extremist, misogynistic views.

You forgot to annotate your post with a disclaimer that your comments should not be read as a ringing endorsement of murder.

The thread’s self-appointed preacher will be on your case any minute now.