Differences (rep Ireland) Irish V UK

[Sillysandy]

I am Irish living in Ireland. My DH is British, he is an immigrant who grew up in London but had lived for 20 years in Ireland when I met him.

I discovered mumsnet about 8 years ago when I took on a sort of stepmum role and was flabbergasted at some of the stories, attitudes and opinions.

I still found the site extremely helpful, often giving me clarity on situations which would cause me a lot of angst.

However when I talk to friends and family members living in the UK I realise that a lot is to do with cultural differences.

It's amazing given how close geographically we are.

Attitudes to money, marriage, divorce, wedding gifts, abortion, house purchases, communication with friends are so far from anything I've seen in my circles.

To give my pov; (these are all generalisations) we get married later, we stay married, we don't consider abortion unless it's very particular circumstances, we are indirect about money "I'll get this one, you can get the next one (but it is LAW you only accept if you are buying back)" and sending bank details for a small amount would be horrifyingly rude, you only attend a wedding with a card containing at least 100 euro pp, you usually get married in your mid thirties, your kids are mainly all with the one father, we hide behind humour until we know a person very well, we don't report benefit fraud, we laugh a lot more... That's just off the top of my head.

The other thing is that most Irish people know all about English Irish historical tensions but many English people are utterly oblivious.

YABU You're talking out of your ass
YANBU The differences are enormous

I'd love to hear some thoughts on this. In my line of work now I do a weekly call with my UK based team and I always notice subtle differences in attitude.

we get married later, we stay married

That's not just a difference between Ireland and UK. It's a difference between Ireland and everywhere else, as the average age for marriage in Ireland is the latest in the world.

It used to be the case in the UK that people stayed married. Having known people in their 80s who stayed married despite abuse I don't see that as a positive thing

I didn't say it was a positive thing. You sound defensive.

I lived in Ireland (only for a few months, admittedly) and got to know an Irish family well. What surprised me was their very middle class snobbery, to the point where they wouldn't allow their children to mix with certain cousins as they were considered a bad influence. They had their own problems but kept them hidden to keep up appearances, and wouldn't admit to them even amongst family members. They were always polite to me but judging by the questions they asked about my own family background and their reactions, they didn't approve of the differences between us. Other Irish families who were 'working class' were completely different; more open and honest and less concerned with how others might perceive them. I agree there are a lot of surprising cultural differences between the UK and ROI, and I experienced a huge culture shock, but class was just as apparent there as in the UK, in my experience.

I met DH at uni but got married at 28, very normal for me. I needed to be sure 😆

Inflation for you . 50 is no biggie now. Same with beggars in Dublin. Used to be ' spare change' but now it's ' You wouldn't have 2 Euros to spare bud? ' 😆

I agree with this. It’s having ‘cop on’ about money.

I'm Irish now living in England. Looking at your generalisations:

We get married later - Agree
We stay married - not sure about this, but if it's true is this always because they are happy to stay married or because of the influence of the Catholic church?
We don't consider abortion unless it's very particular circumstances - Disagree. This might be generational.
We are indirect about money "I'll get this one, you can get the next one (but it is LAW you only accept if you are buying back)" - Not sure this is any different to UK.
Sending bank details for a small amount would be horrifyingly rude - Not aware this is common practice in the UK, I would think it's rude anywhere.
You only attend a wedding with a card containing at least 100 euro pp - Agree, I find there's an expectation that much of the wedding cost will be recouped through gifted money.
You usually get married in your mid thirties - Agree.
Your kids are mainly all with the one father - Not sure that's all that different. Anecdotally I know more Irish people with children by different fathers than English people in the same circumstance. Again, might be generational.
We hide behind humour until we know a person very well - Very similar to English people I know.
We don't report benefit fraud - Not sure that's a good thing?
We laugh a lot more - I think the different cultures have different senses of humour rather than laughing more or less.

I think that is very much a matter of personal choice though. I was "socially expected" to have a "proper" funeral for my DH and I flatly refused because I didn't want it. He had no living family, my parents were dead and my sibs were there but no one else.

Totally agree with everything you said OP.

Irish living in England for 21 years.

Deffo agree, I think we’ve a healthier attitude to death here (Ireland), with the various traditions not so common in England. But the best in my view is the speed of it all. The (often) fortnight’s gap between death and funeral in England is pretty tough on the bereaved, I think. Maybe it’s all about admin and whatnot in a far more populous country that necessitates it, but I think Ireland does it better, with the fast ‘turnaround’.

You wouldn’t hear people saying they were ‘working class’ or ‘middle class’ as they do on MN all the time though. There’s a difference in that sense. Less identification with class maybe?

What were the surprising cultural differences that caused culture shock for you?

What surprised me was their very middle class snobbery

@Failedcrunchymum
I also find it interesting that you were surprised Irish people could be snobby. I think that says something about how people in England (?) view Irish people perhaps.

Not the person you replied to but as an Anglo Irish, in my Irish family there are very clear ideas about what you should and should not do and if you veer from that they will gossip about you. You are competing with the other kids in the family and your neighbours kids.

This relates to divorce, people don’t divorce because the stigma is still there!

I have a cousin who dropped out of uni and works as a nanny, you would have thought she went to prison or something.

Whereas in my experience of lower middle class London/West midlands families (as in, everyone in all these examples are teachers and nurses), no one cares as much.

@CraftyNavySeal I think some Anglo Irish families might retain some of the class preoccupations of the UK though? Though it probably depends and I might be completely wrong.

I do know some of my neighbours have a specific accent recognisable as linked to Anglo heritage. With others there has been a lot more intermarrying and they have the local accent.

ETA I know I never think of myself as working class / lower middle class / upper middle class. It would simply never occur to me to catergorise myself or others in that way. At the same time I often know or can guess who’s wealthier or educated or whatever, but it’s not really named iyswim. Not in my circles anyway.

I don’t know tons about Irish culture ( beyond a few novels and telly stuff) so can’t comment on that but I don’t recognise much of what is described about British culture either. Half of the things people say in MN are totally alien to me! (English)
People seem to get in a twist about all kinds of perceived infractions- they don’t answer the door, don’t talk to their neighbours or to their friends on the phone, go No Contact with difficult family members, are ready to report their neighbours to any authority for any suspected rule breaking and get the horrors if a house has only one bathroom…
None of these things exist in my world in real life but I guess they must in some British cultures.

The funeral thing- we are just a really highly populated country. We wanted to get the soonest slot we could for my mum’s cremation but it was still 12 days. The funeral was packed, we laid on a ton of food and people stayed drinking in the bar til the venue kicked us out, so definitely not a 20min job.
I have heard people refer to funerals as being invitation only on here, which I think is terribly wrong - a funeral is a public event and anyone who knew the deceased should feel welcome if they want to come.
Im Northern and not posh so maybe it’s true that things considered “ British” are really things that are confined to a certain type of person in the Home Counties!

Fair enough, although I think the discussion about class is just a MN thing as it's not a discussion topic in the UK in real life.
The culture shock was mostly related to religion and I was in my early 20's and not very well travelled at the time. I'd never seen anyone with an Ash Wednesday mark on their forehead and there was no one to explain it to me so I thought people had coincidentally got dirt on their faces by accident. Another time I was sitting at the back of a bus when everyone simultaneously made the sign of a cross, and I didn't realise we'd passed a cemetery. So I often felt like I was in the Twilight Zone until someone could explain what was happening. I've since travelled a lot more and I still haven't experienced that level of confusion and the feeling of being the odd one out as I did in ROI. But it was a really good experience for me at that age.

Another thing I don't get about English funerals aside from the slower turnaround, which I don't know if it's better or worse, is all the handwringing I see on here about bringing children to them. Once there was a woman tying herself in knots on here wondering if she should bring her 16 year old to her father's (child's grandad) funeral. The teenager had no additional needs or vulnerabilities. That wouldn't even be a question amongst the vast majority of Irish people.

I’m Irish and there’s two things on Mumsnet stand out as big differences between here and the UK. Firstly is funerals - I can’t imagine having to go back to work and real life before a loved one is buried. They take place about three days after the death and you don’t invite anyone, they just show up. Connection to the dead person can be slight, I’ve gone to many of people I don’t know. Not unusual for half your work colleagues to turn up. Which is great cos you get to talk to them then and not in the office.
The other thing is your rights if you’re not married - cohabiting non-married couples have far more rights in Ireland than in the UK.

I do think we’ve a lot in common too. I’m just back from a trip to Nottingham, a part of the UK I’d never been to before and the friendliness of the people there and the sense of humour reminded me of home.

Watch traitors ireland v traitors UK

That all the differences in one show

One of my best friends is from Dublin, lived in UK for last 30-odd years.

She married DH in her mid-twenties (as did I) and is still married (late & early 50s), each of us only has only one father for DC, not “mainly” only one.

She was always far wealthier than us, and generous to a fault but not in a grand or condescending way; “put your purse away, theses are on me, don’t argue”.

Would rarely put money in a wedding card, quite vulgar. If a couple asks for money, it’s given separately as a gift, but wedding lists are still preferred.

I’d report benefit fraud or tax evasion in a heartbeat, YABVU to infer there’s something wrong in that.

'Yes class - there's a great viral video of an Irish comedian saying that in Ireland there is people, then people with notions'

I really hate the whole concept of 'notions'. There's something similar in the UK where people might get accused of having 'ideas above their station' - well, who decides what someone else's 'station' is or should be?! It's snobbery, defensiveness and begrudgery all rolled into one. Really unpleasant

Isn’t there at least a bit of classism, especially in Dublin with judgements about accents and whether you live on the north or south of the city? And a bit of snobbery referring to country people as culchies (I think that’s the word I’ve heard used anyway)?

I agree the British are much more aware of class but I don’t think the Irish are without a sense of difference amongst themselves either.

Of course there are judgments but the ingrained class system isn't there.

Irish in Ireland, also divorced as are a lot of my friends and we were all divorced in our late 30's/early 40's.

Weddings absolutely no discussion minimum of 100euro per guest and thats just how it goes. You do not question this you just do it.

Funerals well we bring our kids to wakes to see the dead person and funerals are as normal as a sunday dinner, we also use RIP.IE and if you are not named on there quite frankly you are not dead.

Again with money I have been to many a weekend with English pals and been asked to transfer 4stg for something then another 7 for something - here its like 'ah i will put it on the credit card, pay me the lump sum on the night' kinda thing instead.

The catholic church has all but lost its grip over here though so not sure about some of the comments about it.

Also the reporting of everything to everywhere is not really a done thing here, you tend to just mind your own business and turn a blind eye.