Children having their own seat on a packed train.

[user1493559472]

I am on a packed train. A child who is about 3 years old is sat in their own seat and not on the parents lap, would you ask to sit down and the child sits on parents lap? People were standing.
Thank you

That's a valid point. I remember going on a coach tour as a child, being squeezed in and forced to sit on the hard leather join which this 'posher' coach had between the seats. Needless to say, we got there early on the return leg and some other child endured the hard leather join! No seatbelts on buses in the 1980s, likely wouldn't be allowed now!

It can be, especially if they are rude about it. It's yet another reminder to my son about how much his life has changed.

It's recent for my son too. He had an illness 18 months ago and complications from that illness resulted in his disability.

Why doesn't that also apply to children? and parents of small children?

My almost 10 year old looks able bodied and some people on this thread would expect him to stand for them but that isn't possible. On a packed train, we usually fold up his wheelchair and people who get on after have no idea the wheelchair is his.

From the National Rail website.
It appears that if an under 3yrs buys a ticket at the 5-15yrs rate then it should have a seat.
It seems to get blurry when the under-5 is travelling for free.

National Rail don’t have any trains.

But as above. Not in the actual real world

but what difference is it if someone is 2ft tall or 4 ft? We are talking very little practicable difference when sitting on someone’s lap. I could easily sit on my husband’s lap but I am sure most people would think that’s weird on a train journey but it would be the most common sense, efficient use of space on a packed train.

I have said quite clearly most people would move their child into their lap if practicable but given children are independent beings, not automatons, there may be a whole variety of reasons why it is isn’t the best course of action for them to not have their own seat.

I’m very pleased that culture is changing. The idea that someone should be respected simply because they have lived longer than someone else is a nonsense. Respect has to be earned. I know some pretty old arseholes.

Common sense on non-bookable trains is first come, first serve, barring physical difficulties.

its baffling that children should have be more respectful to adults than adults have to be to other adults. It makes no sense at all. I would always give my seat up to someone who needs it more. I might grumble a bit internally if I was tired and needed it but I wouldn’t hesitate as I am able bodied and can manage. I hopefully have brought my children up to do the same. I find it weird telling my children that before the age of 18 they should give their seat up to an able bodied adult for respect reasons but after 18 it’s fair game!

my 7 yr old would sit on my lap in this instance. But I always asked her - I just said, would you sit on my knee so one of these people can have a seat? She would always say yes - but she was v light

Also, the person asking a child to move onto lap is surely doubly selfish - putting out both child and parent.

Of course I get my children to give up a seat for an adult. It’s basic manners and no, I don’t think they’re just as entitled to a seat as adults. I also expect my teens to give up a seat for a person who looks like they need it more, just as I do. Manners cost nothing

What happens between the ages of 17 and 364 days old and 18 that is it good manners to give up a seat for an able bodied adult before and not after?

Did they buy the seat? If so, no.

If they did not buy the seat - how long is the journey? A child cannot sit comfortably on their mother's lap for a long period of time, the mother would not be comfortable either. Is the person standing frail or pregnant?

There is no easy yes or no answer to this. The answer is - it depends.

It's not about 'penance' or 'reverence', nor anyone 'jumping' out of their seats, don't be absurd. But yes, it's reasonable to expect as a parent that you will have to make some sacrifices, including sacrificing your own comfort sometimes. And, as a pp pointed out, you don't have any way of telling if that 'able-bodied' stranger actually is able-bodied or not.

You also don't have any way of telling if the strangers seats you feel entitled to are currently occupied by someone who is able bodied, including the child.

Only seems to go one way funnily enough.

Why should a parent be expected to 'make sacrifices' for some other random adult exactly?

Why does a parent’s comfort matter less than that of another healthy adult?

I’m so sorry, that’s really very sad for him and very hard for you and the rest of your family.

DD1’s tonic clonic seizure came right out of the blue on Christmas Day last year, whilst we were travelling on the motorway to visit relatives. It was very scary.

Make sacrifices for the comfort of your children, not any random person who finds them inconvenient.

Because having a child is a choice and a major inconvenience to the rest of society apparently! Martyrdom of parents is expected didn’t you know?!

Where did I say I felt personally entitled to a seat? I didn't.

And re your second paragraph, no as it happens, it doesn't only go one way. You are quite right that it's not possible to tell who is able bodied and who isn't. The reason I know that is due to my own mobility issues that aren't always readily apparent. Some days I need a seat more, some days less, and on better days I will make a point of offering my seat if someone (adult or child) looks more in need of it than me. But the flip side of that is, yes, I do appreciate it if someone (adult or child) offers me their seat on a bad day when I am visibly struggling myself.

And if I was a parent and saw that someone else was struggling to stand while my child (assuming no disabilities or other issues etc) was occupying a seat, yes I would either give them my seat or ask my child to do so. Probably the latter tbh, due to my own difficulties with standing for any length of time.

It's all about nuance and reading the situation, which seem to have been somewhat lacking on this thread.

Hang on a minute, let me just check where those claims were made...

Oh yes, that's right. Nowhere.

This thread isn’t about offering a seat to someone less able to stand. Everyone agrees 100% that is the case.

this thread is about a packed train and a child has a seat. The OP was essentially complaining that the parent should have given up the child’s seat in order than an able bodied person should sit instead.