Children having their own seat on a packed train.

[user1493559472]

I am on a packed train. A child who is about 3 years old is sat in their own seat and not on the parents lap, would you ask to sit down and the child sits on parents lap? People were standing.
Thank you

I wouldn't ask and I wouldn't expect them to move the child. As others have said, the ticket lets you ride on the train. I've stood on many commuter trains and that's just life. Whether it's an adult or child, if they sat there first, it's their seat.

You don't pay for a seat you pay for the journey. Unless you are on a train where you can reserve your seat you aren't guaranteed a seat.

Or able bodied adults ignoring people who need to sit down. I don't know why small children have been so singled out here when they aren't even on trains that much!

There seems to be an anti child subset of mumsnet posters who think any level of care or consideration for small children is being a "woke snowflake" or something.

The tiny child should be sitting on the parent’s knee. There is no way I would have let my DC have their own seat while adults are standing.

It is good manners and common sense. The 3 year old can sit on the parent’s lap. The standing adult gets the seat. Therefore more people are seated.

That must be very difficult, coping with the judgement from people who don’t realise this and think he should give up his seat.

My DD1 has epilepsy, and has had a tonic clonic seizure whilst travelling, as well as several absences. It woulda’t be safe for her to stand up on a train. But you wouldn’t know that when looking at her.

She’s 16 now, and this is a recent development for her. (Though looking back, I think she did have absences in the past.). But there are many younger children suffering from epilepsy. You just wouldn’t know, so you shouldn’t judge.

This is an incredibly outdated approach though, we now recognise children as actual people who aren't inferior to perfectly able-bodied adults.

Its sad that it is seen as outdated to teach your child simple manners. I feel sorry for children when they grow up and realise that the world does not revolve around them. My kids sat on laps, never did them any harm, grown up to be kind and considerate and also very successful adults

But why? What is the actual reason?

1. they haven’t paid for travel? That may or may not be the case depending on the train/bus service. No hard and fast rule whether or not money has been exchanged for travel.
   even if they are travelling for free, elderly people travel for free on the underground, for example, and no one suggests they get up for an able boded person.

2. they are small so can sit on lap. Yes, possibly some children could happily moved to a lap out of courtesy to someone else but since many people have more than one child with them and bags and a service is packed, it might be difficult, particularly with a wriggly child. I think most people would do this if possible but plenty of reasons why they wouldn’t. Shorter journeys of 20 mins I am sure people would put up with discomfort of a wriggly child but doing it for 2 hours on a packed intercity from London to Manchester, not so sure.

3. respect. Let’s transport ourselves back to the 1950s where children are seen but not heard and children should show deference to random strangers they don’t know and be forced to stand dangerously in a packed train just because they are 3 not 30.

It's not outdated to teach manners, it's outdated to teach them that they matter less than a random able-bodied adult, who somehow feels an odd entitlement to a seat the child is already sitting in. Why is your comfort more important than the child, or the parent, sitting in the seat you've somehow decided is yours?

Depends on the length of the journey. I would have put my ds on my lap for a short journey but if it were for several hours that wouldn't work. Children have rights but not the same rights as adults because they are not adults. They have different needs, hence different rights. Sitting a small child in your lap to free a seat for an adult is a reasonable thing to do, depending on other circumstances.

It's potentially a reasonable thing to do - it might not be, and definitely shouldn't be expected or demanded.

Not all disabilities or injuries are visible and the sooner people realise that and stop making judgements because they can't see something the better.

I had whiplash after a car accident, it was an unseen injury and looking at me you'd think I was a fit, healthy adult but I was in absolute agony for months.

The mother could have had an operation that meant the child couldn't sit on her.

This thread is crazy. Is anyone commenting that children are 'just as entitled' to have a seat in the north of England, or is this a London thing? Where I live, it's basic manners to move your kid onto your knees and allow an adult to sit.

There's no need to get into a moral dilemma - this approach simply means that more people can fit onto a packed train or bus. The argument could be extrapolated further - why should I have to move to the middle of the train to allow a perfectly able-bodied adult to stand next to the doors? Because it's common sense. Get a grip.

You have no idea what a random able bodied adult is, you cant tell by looking.

When a child is old enough to have to pay for a ticket and too heavy to sit on a lap with ease they stay where they are unless your elderly or disabled or pregnant. Otherwise you can ask an able bodied man to to give up his comfort for yours if you dare, or is it only mothers of small children who should bow to your demands?

How can you tell if a parent is able to put her child on her knee then, if we cannot tell by looking? As it is, the OP who started this thread didn't mention anything about not being able bodied. HTH

well if that’s the case should I sit on my husband’s lap whenever there is a packed train? That is a more efficient use of space? My MIL is about 4 and half foot so she’s smaller than most people. Far more efficient for her to sit on my lap on a busy train?

no one is saying that no child shouldn’t be moved on to a lap if practicable. Most people do this for, as you say for space efficiency purposes and it to no detriment to parent or child. There are many reasons why a parent can’t do this though and therefore you are judging someone without cause if they don’t. You Have no idea the reasons why someone can’t/won’t do it.

It's clearly much easier for the entitled folk to pick on mothers and children.

I'm imagining an interesting game of 'Father, Mother, Baby' on a packed commuter train......I'm sure your MIL will love the suggestion of sitting on your knee next time......🤣🤣🤣🤣

I am now thinking of a massive pile up of family members all sitting on each other until we reach the ceiling! 🤣😂

Then all falling on the folk who wanted to sit in your seats.....🤣

One probleM is that trains now have individual seats.

The older trains when I was a kid had like
a bench cushion that ran all
the way along so you could squeeze three or four kids into a space meant for two adults. Not possible now with an uncomfortable bit of plastic/metal and an armrest between the seats.

Thanks for the image 😂😂

I'm not judging anyone. I've also never seen a 3 year old reach 4 1/2 feet tall, either. If you have, however, then that's a valid comparison and you're clearly you're more worldly than me.

You've illustrated my point about common sense being missing in action very well, though, so thanks!

But yes, I’d put my child on my lap so another adult could sit down.

They travel free under 5 so they wouldn’t have paid for the seat.