Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Freedom of speech isn't tolerated by some

855 replies

WhatNextBanana · 10/09/2025 22:58

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comment/2025/09/10/charlie-kirks-shooting-terrible-moment-american-democracy/

Political violence on the rise.

People are getting angry when people have Political views they don't agree with. Freedom of speech must be allowed not shutdown.

Tragic news of a young family man shot by someone today. Please remember he was a human with a family. Violence is never ok.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
pointythings · 13/09/2025 08:47

@WhereIsMyJumper and @TinyIsMyNewt I am on the left and I agree with both of you that it is online polarisation that is so very dangerous.

I do however have very serious concerns about democracy in the US. My DS is a US citizen, and this time last year he was seriously contemplating moving over there to be with his then partner. He is gay and disabled. I am so very, very glad that he decided against it and that he and his partner have decided to step down to friends. The US is not safe for people like him, and that is sad.

The rule of law matters. The current US government does not respect the rule of law. Condemning that is not a partisan thing.

DdraigGoch · 13/09/2025 09:15

CantCallItLove · 13/09/2025 08:22

I'm on that other thread with you and agree by the way. It feels like we're on quite a descent, and I fear more riots and more violence and more polarisation. It is quite clear that Trump is deliberately whipping this up, and that Kirk's murder will be used to inflame things further.

Yes, I fear that this will be Trump's Reichstag fire moment. Used as an excuse for a crackdown on civil liberties and to imprison political opponents on trumped-up (no pun intended) charges.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 13/09/2025 09:27

I think that the ramping up of the Christian Nationalism is also extremely worrying. The rallying cries for redemption by joining a church, fighting the "good fight" etc.

I have recommended a documentary before called " Praying for Armageddon" on YouTube which demonstrates that people with fundamentalist views are seeded throughout government in the US. Some of them are extremely influential and focused on seeing the end times, as "described" in the Bible, through to its end, to facilitate the second coming. This event is a catalyst for more open dissemination of these goals. "Spiritual warfare" has been referenced.

I understand that when it seems mankind is in chaos, it's tempting to invoke a higher power, but some of the actions of these particular "Christians" are at absolute odds with generally understood Christian principles.

It's another layer of concern that deeply worries me.

justasking111 · 13/09/2025 10:24

CantCallItLove · 13/09/2025 08:22

I'm on that other thread with you and agree by the way. It feels like we're on quite a descent, and I fear more riots and more violence and more polarisation. It is quite clear that Trump is deliberately whipping this up, and that Kirk's murder will be used to inflame things further.

In the same way that 9/11 inflamed the situation and continues to this day.

ElatedShark · 13/09/2025 16:09

Lol OP's agenda didn't age well now we know who the killer is 😂

TheOtherBennetGirl · 13/09/2025 16:44

@Mustbethat HBCs or HBCUs are Historically Black Colleges and Universities. Before the civil rights movement ushered in reforms, Black students were frequently turned away from universities. These schools were founded to ensure every student could access higher education.

LeaningOnTheEverlastingArms · 13/09/2025 19:41

The most shocking aspect of the assassination of Charlie Kirk, for me, is the huge number of people who thought it appropriate to gleefully celebrate this heinous crime. Absolutely barbaric.

mbosnz · 13/09/2025 19:44

I'm certainly not celebrating it. Nor will I pretend that I think this is on a par with Martin Luther King being assassinated.

pointythings · 13/09/2025 19:51

LeaningOnTheEverlastingArms · 13/09/2025 19:41

The most shocking aspect of the assassination of Charlie Kirk, for me, is the huge number of people who thought it appropriate to gleefully celebrate this heinous crime. Absolutely barbaric.

There is an enormous difference between gleefully celebrating Kirk's assassination (I don't) and being honest that they will not mourn his death (I am in this group).

GasperyJacquesRoberts · 13/09/2025 20:48

LeaningOnTheEverlastingArms · 13/09/2025 19:41

The most shocking aspect of the assassination of Charlie Kirk, for me, is the huge number of people who thought it appropriate to gleefully celebrate this heinous crime. Absolutely barbaric.

Were you more or less shocked by the reaction of some on the left to Charlie Kirk's murder compared to, say, the way many on the right (Charlie Kirk included) reacted to the death of George Floyd or the brutal attack on Paul Pelosi?

AnyoneWhoHasAHeart · 13/09/2025 20:53

LeaningOnTheEverlastingArms · 13/09/2025 19:41

The most shocking aspect of the assassination of Charlie Kirk, for me, is the huge number of people who thought it appropriate to gleefully celebrate this heinous crime. Absolutely barbaric.

Can you quote the posts on this thread where anyone has gleafully celebrated the shooting of Charlie Kirk? Oh wait, there aren’t any.

The virtue signalling on this thread is off the scale.

Acknowledging the person Kirk was does not equal gleafully celebrating his death. It acknowledges the kind of person he was. His being dead doesn’t change that fact. In fact it’s only because of the individual that Kirk was that anyone even cares about his shooting.

People are shot in the US every single day, and nobody gives a shit. Yes there’s a passing mention on the news of the number of children shot in x school or y university, and some calls from foreign countries for gun control yada yada, and then some individual like Kirk stands up and says that murder is justified because of the second amendment.

Do I think Charlie Kirk should have been killed? No.

Do I think the killer should be brought to justice? Absolutely.

Do I think that he deserves to be shown up for the vile individual he was? Absolutely.

If anything the shooting of Charlie Kirk is a bad thing because now he’s been as good as sainted.

I wonder if the same people defending Charlie Kirk on here had the same view if Jimmy Saville had been murdered. Or any number of other heinous criminals.

It’s still possible to acknowledge that someone shouldn’t be killed while accepting that regardless of the fact it was wrong, they were still a horrible person. The two things are not mutually exclusive.

And in the meantime the whole Epstein files have slid back into obscurity. Hmm, strange that. Such a coincidence….

WhatNextBanana · 13/09/2025 21:03

ElatedShark · 13/09/2025 16:09

Lol OP's agenda didn't age well now we know who the killer is 😂

What agenda?

OP posts:
WhatNextBanana · 13/09/2025 21:06

ElatedShark · 13/09/2025 16:09

Lol OP's agenda didn't age well now we know who the killer is 😂

We have found out the killer is the 22 year old son of MAGA supporters who lives with a trans person.

The fact is CK didn't deserve to die. I don't agree with CKs views on most things but he didn't deserve to die.

OP posts:
EasternStandard · 13/09/2025 21:22

ElatedShark · 13/09/2025 16:09

Lol OP's agenda didn't age well now we know who the killer is 😂

Which is what? New stuff is being released and it’s a mix of things

mintydoggyv · 13/09/2025 21:57

EasternStandard · 13/09/2025 21:22

Which is what? New stuff is being released and it’s a mix of things

Whatever ones political views be they librel left or very right wing , no politician, needs to be shot , sorry for his wife and children phases of policy come and go things swing one way and another but no one needs to lose there life , in the uk things go one way and another but Loss of life no , when there is a common enemy like fascist then yes we need to crush it's not good for any one

GasperyJacquesRoberts · 13/09/2025 22:23

WhatNextBanana · 13/09/2025 21:06

We have found out the killer is the 22 year old son of MAGA supporters who lives with a trans person.

The fact is CK didn't deserve to die. I don't agree with CKs views on most things but he didn't deserve to die.

Edited

There's over a hundred victims of gun violence EVERY DAY in the US. None of them deserve to die.

GasperyJacquesRoberts · 13/09/2025 22:27

mintydoggyv · 13/09/2025 21:57

Whatever ones political views be they librel left or very right wing , no politician, needs to be shot , sorry for his wife and children phases of policy come and go things swing one way and another but no one needs to lose there life , in the uk things go one way and another but Loss of life no , when there is a common enemy like fascist then yes we need to crush it's not good for any one

Charlie Kirk wasn't a politician. He was a podcaster and the head of a right-wing pressure group. Melissa Hortman was a politician but it's weird how little her death was noted while Kirk's has instantly become a cause celebre.

Mustbethat · 14/09/2025 10:18

The hunting down, doxing, and getting people fired has made me really angry this morning.

people are losing their jobs for their opinions. Their livelihoods. I’m not even talking about those “celebrating” CK’s death, although while I don’t agree, I defend their right to say it- but people simply saying they feel no empathy, or sadness at his death, or posting memes or whatever.

one person claims to have got over 500 people fired, and has stayed up sending emails. There is a thread where people post screenshots and those people’s employers are contacted.

if you agreed with CK, he argued for free speech. Shutting down those who dislke or disagree with his opinions is not free speech.

then you have actual governmental representatives deciding if foreigners make any negative statements about CK they will be refused entry.

free speech is gone in the USA. And they have the absolute gall to insist the UK does not have free speech and we can’t say “hurty words” on the internet.

Nagginthenag · 14/09/2025 10:26

Yes, the utter irony of free speech being policed by keyboard warriors who venerate Kirk, the free speech advocate.

DdraigGoch · 14/09/2025 10:45

Mustbethat · 14/09/2025 10:18

The hunting down, doxing, and getting people fired has made me really angry this morning.

people are losing their jobs for their opinions. Their livelihoods. I’m not even talking about those “celebrating” CK’s death, although while I don’t agree, I defend their right to say it- but people simply saying they feel no empathy, or sadness at his death, or posting memes or whatever.

one person claims to have got over 500 people fired, and has stayed up sending emails. There is a thread where people post screenshots and those people’s employers are contacted.

if you agreed with CK, he argued for free speech. Shutting down those who dislke or disagree with his opinions is not free speech.

then you have actual governmental representatives deciding if foreigners make any negative statements about CK they will be refused entry.

free speech is gone in the USA. And they have the absolute gall to insist the UK does not have free speech and we can’t say “hurty words” on the internet.

These people acting as thought police when someone does something as simple as quoting CK's own words are the same people who were openly celebrating when Melissa Hortman was assassinated.

I do wonder if the US will survive the Trump presidency. No empire lasts forever, this may well fracture it.

GetOffMyLan · 14/09/2025 10:47

Nagginthenag · 14/09/2025 10:26

Yes, the utter irony of free speech being policed by keyboard warriors who venerate Kirk, the free speech advocate.

Can't expect stupid people to understand irony.

MrsSkylerWhite · 14/09/2025 10:55

DdraigGoch · 14/09/2025 10:45

These people acting as thought police when someone does something as simple as quoting CK's own words are the same people who were openly celebrating when Melissa Hortman was assassinated.

I do wonder if the US will survive the Trump presidency. No empire lasts forever, this may well fracture it.

Unfortunately Vance will just step straight in.

Mustbethat · 14/09/2025 11:07

GetOffMyLan · 14/09/2025 10:47

Can't expect stupid people to understand irony.

Unfortunately it’s having real life consequences.

it’s the US. Many employers can fire at will. So no recourse to employment law. In addition health insurance is often tied to employment.

they’re bypassing the law to punish people.

LeaningOnTheEverlastingArms · 14/09/2025 11:46

Charlie Kirk spoke.

He calmly invited respectful conversations, discourse. Embodying “come let us reason together”.

And he was brutally assassinated.

In the aftermath others have also spoken.

Not calmly inviting discourse or respectful conversations. Not seeking to “reason together” with those who think differently.

But expressing raw delight and joy over his heinous murder. Many demanding more of the same, including his family.

And crying when they find their words have consequences in the real world.

They rejoiced when he was murdered for his words but claim victimhood when they are fired for theirs.

Irony indeed.

Mustbethat · 14/09/2025 12:02

LeaningOnTheEverlastingArms · 14/09/2025 11:46

Charlie Kirk spoke.

He calmly invited respectful conversations, discourse. Embodying “come let us reason together”.

And he was brutally assassinated.

In the aftermath others have also spoken.

Not calmly inviting discourse or respectful conversations. Not seeking to “reason together” with those who think differently.

But expressing raw delight and joy over his heinous murder. Many demanding more of the same, including his family.

And crying when they find their words have consequences in the real world.

They rejoiced when he was murdered for his words but claim victimhood when they are fired for theirs.

Irony indeed.

But they aren’t restricted themselves to those who express joy.

which is still free speech, by the way. It is not a criminal offence to say you are happy someone is dead. It is free speech and I will defend people’s right to hold that opinion, whether I agree or not.

they are going after anyone and everyone who does not agree with CK’s opinions, or dares to say he was anything less than a hero.

they are not calmly inviting discourse or respectful conversations. They are not allowing free speech, against everything CK stood for.

CK called for someone to go bail out Pelosi’s attacker when he was brutally assaulted. Said they would be a “patriot”. Why did he not lose everything for celebrating a violent assault?

Swipe left for the next trending thread