Freedom of speech isn't tolerated by some

[WhatNextBanana]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comment/2025/09/10/charlie-kirks-shooting-terrible-moment-american-democracy/

Political violence on the rise.

People are getting angry when people have Political views they don't agree with. Freedom of speech must be allowed not shutdown.

Tragic news of a young family man shot by someone today. Please remember he was a human with a family. Violence is never ok.

That's good news.

You need to start from a recognition that structural discrimination exists. You need to look at all the research and evidence that exposes conscious and unconscious bias in the workplace. Then you can understand the ways in which people of diverse backgrounds are underrepresented and where they face barriers to employment, promotion, equal pay etc. We are not beginning from a meritocracy! Were workplaces in the 70s, 80s, 90s a utopia of equality where anyone could succeed regardless of race, sex and class, purely based on their merits? No, this was not the case.

So, you find that these barriers exist and the solution is to implement policies - DEI policies - to address the structural issues that mean access to opportunities are not equal.

Then some people complain because they don't like that people of colour, with disabilities, women or gay people are now getting the jobs and pay for which they are qualified. Not everything goes to white men anymore (though white men are still wildly overrepresented in board rooms). So these people start to say it's because of diversity policies that these people have jobs.

The answer is not to scrap DEI policies and allow discriminatory practises to continue. It's to implement them fairly and counter disinformation about how DEI (or EDI) works.

But the problem is with the people who assume no one black or female got their job on merit - not with the policies implemented to make access to the workplace less discriminatory than it used to be.

Any source? The DEI initiatives in the US were creating academies to target black people for air industry roles, it wasn't about employing unqualified people.

Not necessarily. It could be someone that is current or ex military, but equally it could be a skilled hunter proficient at making kill shots. The gun used was an imported Mauser 30-06. It likely is an ex service weapon (they have been and are still used by militaries), but in the U.S they’re commonly used for hunting bigger game like deer and elk.

It could be someone with a cause, or someone that wants infamy/ to be treated as a folk hero in certain circles (like Luigi Mangione). Could even just be a psychopath that was bored and wanted the thrill of the challenge, and/or to amuse himself with the resulting chaos.

I don’t think you can know that with certainty

So agree , to much hate , l may not agree with his politics but feel so sad for a wife and 2 lovely children,

I though Lamping was illegal?

Most Americans believe some abortion should be legal.He wouldn't even support it for a 10yo rape victim.

But he himself said some gun deaths were acceptable to keep the 2nd amendment rights.

while I do feel sorry for the kids, he and his wife had not one jot of sympathy for all the bereaved parents of school shootings. As long as they got to keep their guns they did not care.

they are suffering the consequence of their own opinion. Did he deserve to die? No. But those 3 kids in Colorado didn’t deserve it either. I’ll keep my sadness for them

No it's not.

What an imbalanced perspective. Some left are dangerous. So are some right. Stop dehumanising whole groups of people, you should be ashamed of yourself.

Here is list of right AND left violence in the US in recent years.

On The Right
1.The murder of Melissa Hortman and her husband
2.The attempted murder of John Hoffman and his wife
3.The attempted kidnapping and murder of Gretchen Whitmer
4.The attempted kidnapping and murder of Nancy Pelosi and the brutal assault on her husband Paul with a hammer
5.The attempted murder of Esther Salas and the murder of her son Daniel
6.The attempted arson of Josh Shapiro and his family while they slept during Passover
(I've seen people say this was a Left wing murder attempt bc it was an anti Semitic attempt to blame him for the Palestine situation. However, the would-be murderer voted Trump in the last election and previously had been an independent. There are also Palestine fanatics (not just reasonable campaigners) and anti Semites on the right, though it is more common on the left, so I don't think it should be labelled Left just bc it's those things)
7.Pipe bomb sent to Biden

On The Left

1.Two assassination attempts on Trump

(One of which killed a bystander)

3.Attempted murder of Brett Kavanagh

1. Murder of Charlie Kirk

1. Murder of Israeli Embassy couple

1. Anti Semitic attack in Boulder, Colorado

1. Minneapolis shooting of Catholic school children.

1. Nashville shooting of Christian schoolchildren

1. Bomb at RNC

United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson's murder is more difficult to classify as murderer held a mixture of left and right views, and was unaffiliated to a party.

BLM protests led to 25 deaths, by a mixture of left and right wing perpetrators. Will break this down later.

Tesla attacks on vehicles seem aimed more at the vehicle but also appear to intend to endanger human life- which they have.

ICE boxing and violence against ICE agents.

Bombing of 'crisis pregnancy' anti-abortion centres.

Bombing of IVF clinic by anti-natalist. This ideology is technically neither left or right but is more popular on extreme left than extreme right.

Others On The Right

The abortion clinic bombing planned in 2024 by a Neo-Nazi ex-Marine. He was also planning to target Jewish & LGBT people.

Mike Pence attempted lynching during Jan 6.

Heather Heying murder by neo-Nazi at Charlottesville.

His wife seems lovely. Don't assume a wife is identical to her husband.

His wife married a facist, presumably because they have the same ‘values’. Don’t assume she’s lovely.

If my dh ever said the deaths of children was an acceptable price to pay for being able to own guns he would not be my husband from that moment.

if my husband said my 10 year old rape victim daughter would be forced to continue the pregnancy, regardless of the effect on her body and mind, he’d no longer be my husband.

so unless he had her coerced into staying with him despite his views, it can only be concluded that she agrees.

eta my husband has shot in the past and is quite nerdy about guns, history etc. he probably would like to do more hobby shooting. But no way, ever on this planet would he agree that guns are more important than kids.

i mean, the us says it needs the right to bear arms to keep their freedoms. If trump gets any worse or makes a bad decision, is the public really going to take up those arms against the government and start a civil war?

He wasn't a fascist. I loathed plenty of his views- why do you exaggerate ?

DEI in the USA goes, or at least went, far far beyond the air industry!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity,_equity,_and_inclusion

If DEI was simply about equality of opportunity rather than equity of outcome, and was more like EDI is in the UK, it probably wouldn’t have been nearly so much of an issue.

I don't see anything in that article to suggest less competent people are being hired.

I disagree. That’s not exaggerating. Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist ideology.
Sound familiar so far? Demonising political opponents - tick. Using demonising language to target minorities - tick. Framing political opponents as fundamentally evil enemies - tick.
invoking the idea of a spiritual battle in which American identity ( nationalism) must be defended against internal subversion. Tick.

I could go on, but you get the gist. Christian nationalism ( charlie’s bag) relates closely to fascist ideology with its toxic mix of religious exclusivism ( I Islam, thirst cutting etc) authoritarianism ( submit to your husbands, women. Men, submit to the will of god) & the pursuit of a perceived national purity.

… if it looks like a fascist and talks like a fascist … even in younger, more modern clothing.

"Sometimes" under sells it.

Political violence and murders are usually associated with right wing extremism.

Between 2013 and 2022, in the US, 75% of political killings were by right wing actors, 20% Islamic extremism, 4% left wing.

For 2022 - 2024, 100% of political killings were by right wing extremists.

He will also be remembered for being mid way through another racist statement the moment he was shot.

It's quoting him, from video/audio where HE spoke, is everything you don't agree with just fake news to you people, does proof mean nothing? Your saviour CK was a piece of shit, too bad so sad.

Since the OP started this thread with a focus on free speech, I'd be so interested to know what they make of the statement today from US government officials that foreigners 'praising, rationalizing, or making light of' Kirk's death online won't be allowed into the country.

This isn't the case for other murders by the way. You won't be interrogated by US Customs or turned away from the country for talking about Melissa Hortman's assassination the wrong way, but you have to be extremely careful how you talk about Kirk if you want to get in.

Their country, their choice - it isn't for me to say how they should dictate their border policy. But I'm really interested to see if everyone so eager to say that they welcome debate and are delighted to disagree with people but defend their right to say offensive things are happy with this policy to severely restrict speech that the US government dislike?

Please note, this isn't about violence in general - you can disparage the assassination of Hortman, a member of Trump's administration did so publicly recently. This isn't a stance to keep violent people out of the country. This includes punishment of anyone 'rationalising' Kirk's death eg. pointing out that he's a casualty of the very gun policy he supported.

Those of you saying how passionately devoted Kirk was to the principle of free speech, do you think this serves his memory well?

Funny how this whole concept of belittling DEI initiatives and "meritocracy" comes out of an administration where EVERYONE is unqualified for the job that they hold and the only merit that is taken into account is how far they are willing to bend over for Trump. However doctors and scientists who actually went to school and EARNED their credentials are losing their jobs based on their skin colour. You have it backwards, they are replacing qualified minorities with unqualified Trump bootlickers so who is actually getting the leg up here? Shocking that people can't see this.

I’ve seen on social media as well witch hunts for anyone saying negative things - reporting to employers and getting them fired, doxing people etc.

no more free speech.

I am actually starting to wonder if people will invoke the 2nd and start taking up arms to “ protect their rights”

This white Mormon who grew up with guns being in custody is forcing some real handbrake turns online.