To be annoyed that my employer won’t let me go part time?

[Topoftheroof]

I currently work full time 5 days a week. I made a flexible working request to go part time to 2 days a week because of personal circumstances (family circumstances) but it was declined. I’m annoyed though because there are other people (2 other people) working in the company only 2 days a week so it’s not unheard of. But they won’t consider it because I’m a head of department (not in a school and nothing to do with education or academics) and they also won’t give me another role in the company either which can be 2 days a week. I feel like I could cry with stress, I can’t afford to not work at all but can’t work 5 days a week at the moment either due to circumstances. I explained on my request that part time 2 days a week might not be permanent but they still declined the request. Both my boss and the managing director are always moaning that they “dread the day” I leave because “there’s no one in the business as good as” me so it’s baffling to me that they wouldn’t approve the 2 days a week knowing that I can’t work full time 5 days a week at the moment but then at the same time always say that they don’t want me to leave the company and would do anything to stop me leaving. I haven’t decided if I should appeal it yet or not, I don’t know what to do. I’m just really upset and have been crying about it because I can’t afford not to work at all and can’t do full time at the moment either. I’m also very annoyed with my employer too for rejecting the request. AIBU to be annoyed with my employer about this?

If your managing other people then surely 2 days of availability isn't good enough contact time

4 wouldn’t work unfortunately, 3 might possibly work.

I’d be careful. There’s countless people out of work in the tv industry and they’d have no problem replacing you while as you’ve seen, there’s no jobs out there especially with good family friendly conditions. It sucks but you might need to shift to a different kind of job, as four dc is a lot to deal with and the industry just isn’t inclined to be accommodating.

This was going to be my suggestion. Can you discuss 3 or 4 days with them? It would be better than staying at 5.

Or apply for jobs elsewhere for 3 days per week.

You keep repeating this.

1. they do a different role to yours - you are a manager. Just because you feel you can do your tasks in 2 days, doesn’t mean that you should then be unavailable to your team for the remainder of the week.
2. the more people request a specific work pattern, the less likely the employer is to approve future requests of the same nature as they wouldn’t meet the demand. Example: out of 10 employees 7 request a Monday off - who’s going to work Mondays?? Just because other people can, does not mean everyone can
3. you can only appeal a FWR if you believe the process has not been followed correctly, they did not meet the statutory deadline for an outcome, or if they didn’t give you one of the six reasons (listed on the ACAS website) as the pushback. Just from your post alone I can tell they could probably give you three of them

It sounds like you decided to become the sole carer of 4 children and didn't consider that you actually work full time and just expected your bosses to comply with your wishes.

You didn't think this through.

Your bosses have no obligation to bend over backwards so you can suddenly have 4 children and a 2 day a week job.

Hire a nanny?

Could you say how long you need to reduce your days for? They're probably worried once you go down to two days a week, you won't want to go back to five. Perhaps you need to highlight your reasons why and reassure them that it's only temporary. Suggest getting something written up and a review date, something to give them a sense of security. Sounds like they value you as an employee but it is quite a drop of hours so will need a bit more persuading!

This is very emotional for you and I am sorry you are struggling at the moment, but you also need to see it from your employer's perspective: as a Head of department and team leader, a big part of your job is to lead, coach, and support your team. That really can't be done in 2 days per week, it would have too big a negative impact on the team (and if you don't think that's the case, then maybe a leadership position is not the best role for you - which is ok too).

Asking to go down from 5 to 2 days per week is not a basis for negotiation, it's too disruptive for a business. My advice would be: ask to go down to 4 days for a specific period of time (3 months for instance), making the terms very clear on both sides so they know what to expect from you ("might not be permanent" is too unpredictable).

Also, if you keep telling them that "your 5-day job can really be done in 2 days"... at some point they will take your word for it, and quickly replace you with another person who will work more productively, essentially delivering twice as much output in the same time.

As sad as it sounds, the responsibility of your employer is to run their business effectively and productively, it is not to accommodate employees if their requests are too disruptive.

Wishing you all the best.

Can you ask to work five days but reduce your hours a bit so you are at least present at work every day?

Are you not getting a foster care allowance to help cover the cost of caring for the children? Hire a nanny to help you in the mornings or evenings (even just for the younger ones). Are you able to claim the free childcare hours? Would you not be worse off financially reducing your hours to two days than hiring someone to help?

Could you work out how to use maternity/adoption leave entitlement to compromise here? You are taking on a huge commitment and I wonder if there is some way the company can help you as part of their inclusion policies/charity endeavors. wish you luck and admire the depth of love you are finding.

Why on earth are they paying you for 5 days when your role can be done in 2?

Be careful what you wish for.

But don’t you see what message that sends out? If, for a year or two you could do your job in two days a week what possible incentive could there be for your employer not to capitalise on this saving and refuse to increase your hours to five days a week again. You have proved it could be done in two days so they would be insane to pay you for five days in a year or twos time.

Probably one of the issues is about reallocating work. You say you have outlined how that can be done. They say it can’t be done. The reality is, it’s very difficult to do that without having some impact
on others. If others are going to pick up your work then either a) they will be overworked or b) they will need to stop doing some of their own duties.

I’m not in the UK but in my country there would be some financial assistance from the government in the sort of situation that you are talking about. I’m sure there would be something similar there. I think your best bet is to leave this job, find another which may well be fewer hours and lower paying, and take all the assistance you can get.

How long have you been looking for another part time job OP?

I am sorry you are in this situation @Topoftheroofand really feel for you. I am very pro flexible working, and work for an organisation that has supported as manner of flex arrangements for office staff for 25+ years. One thing we no longer do is < 3 days/week in leadership and professional roles. I used to manage someone who did 2 days. She spent the morning of her first day catching up, and the afternoon of her second day briefing people to cover her absence. She was good at the technical side of her job, but very ineffective due to the constraints of her working hours.

I have also been managed by someone who did 3 days a week, but took a day’s leave or flex every week for 3 months, effectively working 2 days. He may have felt that he was managing well, keeping on top of paperwork etc, but he was so difficult to get hold of, unaware that his team needed him, mid year reviews didn’t happen despite us chasing etc.

I suspect your employer is concerned that something similar to these situations may arise.

I know you’ve said they won’t consider a jobshare, but what about if you could find a job share partner from the existing staff? (Another flex option that worked for me).

Good luck. It sounds like you are in a very difficult situation.

Would job share be an option, if you could find a job share partner for the other three days?

Tell social services that you cannot take in the 6 month old baby. You’re a good person for taking these children in but it’s not your responsibility. You can’t meet your obligations to the older ones if you are caring for a 6 month old and trying to work. Who on earth is this family member who keeps having children they can’t care for themselves?

She's said she already suggested this and it's not an option.

Given your updates, I think you have to prioritise the children you are already caring for. Do you have any biological children or is your family made up entirely from foster children who are siblings?

If you can’t get work that fits around the baby, and you can’t afford not to work, then you aren’t able to take on this additional responsibility of the six month old.

And presumably there might be more children coming after the six month old.

Haven't read through so apologies if this has already been suggested, but if you think it won't be permanent could you use AL to cover 3 days off a week for now? Maybe they would be happy to grant some unpaid leave too.

This sounds like there's a very sad background to it all which you of course can't go into here, and I understand completely why you'd want to keep all four together, but a 6mo would be well cared for by someone else with more capacity and you could look at ways to have them back longer term in the future when you're better set-up to do so. Most mums with 4 DC including a baby would find it nigh on impossible to carry on a career in this industry without serious wealth and family support, so to try to make it work on your own and with the extra complications of the fostering and emotional pressures feels just untenable. I can see why you want the work to be the thing that gives, but even in a very kind public sector role, I think you'd struggle to manage what you're taking on, never mind in the media that has never been family-friendly and is more under the cosh than ever. If you really feel you have no option but to care for all four yourself, you need to go all in on that and reorient yourself career-wise to something that's manageable with 4 young DC, even not working for the next few years and focusing on the kids until they're in school. Something's got to give and it's not going to be your employers as they've made clear. Sorry this is so hard, I hope you can find the headspace to make some difficult decisions.

Yeah all of this. Why on earth would you agree to foster a 6 month old baby when you have no plans sorted with work regarding how you are going to do this?!