Do people really think PIP claimants are fraudsters?!

[Greedybilly]

As someone with a chronic illness in the middle of claiming PIP I think it's important to point out it's very stressful to go through the process and actually get the benefit.
To those who were inferring it's an easy blag - I would say yes there will always be a few scammers who claim fraudulently ( though god knows how tbh?) the majority have to struggle for years/go through appeals/give up.
Just saying this for balance as I feel MN is turning slghtly into the Daily Fail.

Maybe

The premise of this thread is flawed. Very few people (if any) think that all PIP claimants are fraudsters. I would however venture that the majority of the population know that the system is being abused at a much greater rate than the DWP figures suggest.

I also think the majority of fraud is occurring in a grey area. It's not the extreme cases you see in the papers about marathon runners completely fabricating a bad back, but people with genuine struggles that exaggerate a bit to get the benefits they feel they deserve and most worryingly feel entitled to. So they will lean heavily into their struggles for the purposes of the application and seek out medical evidence to confirm this. For example, someone focussing on their worst days and experiences with their condition and presenting this as a more common experience than what is actually happening in reality. I think people feel morally comfortable doing this because they do have some struggles and problems with their health so it isn't out and out fraud.

These people are extremely difficult for any government to identify and prosecute hence why the fraud figures are ridiculously low. The sad fact is though that these people are causing the welfare net to be spread to widely and this will lead to cuts for everyone. Anger and resentment from those who will be adversely impacted should be directed at those who are gaming the system and seeking personal gain, not at the financially pressured taxpayer that simply can't sustain such a heavy financial burden.

Yes, your suggestions are indeed laughable

😹

It's supposed to make life easier for disabled people, not harder.

They've resorted to various laughing emojis now, so I think they've ran out of argument. Bless.

Supermarket delivers are much easier than going to the shop

The vast majority of disabled people or their carers are more than capable of deciding if that's the case for themselves.

If a diagnosis is so essential then why isn't it required?
Because you can demonstrate needs I some case without a diagnosis but in most case, a diagnosis on its own accotd, already ticks many boxes.

You don't need to have severe glaucoma to get pip because you can't see well on a day to day basis, but a diagnosis of severe glaucoma speak for itself because nobody with severe glaucoma will not be affected by very poor eye sight.

Not if they won’t deliver in your area / to your property

Is it?! Gosh l never knew.

You have no idea at all what I’m going. Nothing, But thank you soo much for your incredibly helpful advice. Why didn’t l think of it?😲

I get supermarket delivery. No vouchers involved.

Sorry to disappoint you but im
still here. It’s also pretty ludicrous to suggest that everyone on the receiving end of PIP needs it. Those who should have it should have it and nobody has said otherwise. But those who
claim fraudulently are taking the money out of the hands of those who need it. You should be getting angry at these people and not the ones who suggest fraudulent activity is going on

Then you need to get a nectar card then. Plenty of discounts if you have one

not always.
one of my DS's issues is an eating disorder called ARFID.
Quite often if i order our shopping, they will not have something, or will substitute a thing with something he won't/can't eat.. so i have to still go to the supermarket, which as a crutch/chair user, means having to take someone with me because i my supermarket doesn't have wheelchair trollies.

It's often easier to go myself, with help, and use the scan as you shop facility. At least then its all done in one trip and i know we have everything we need.

Im not arguing that people who are fraudulently getting it should. I am arguing your points, with you, who apparently know better than everyone else on who should receive it and who shouldn't and how they should receive it, with blatantly, zero experience of living with these disabilities

I know of (and yes I have reported to benefits fraud) 4 people who claim PIP but shouldn't get it. 3 of them bragged about how easy it was to game the system. It really makes me angry when there are shits like this who are basically professional benefits applicants get all the money, when a lot of people who could really do with the financial help to improve their living arrangements, get some home help or special equipment are denied.
Just to say, I do have a disability, but I have never applied as I have always supported myself even though I am probably eligible and I think therein lies the rub, people think they are entitled, even though they don't necessarily need the help.

The debate about vouchers is interesting. Ultimately support for this kind of system comes from the fact that lots of taxpayers want to be reassured that the money that is awarded for PIP/DLA is being spent on disability related costs. I know posters on this forum like to insist that PIP/DLA can legitimately be spent on holidays, getting your nails done etc but it is understandable that the vast majority of the population disagree with this and if you are dependent on other people to fund your PIP/DLA then ultimately you can't be massively shocked when the general population want restrictions put in place and start to get angry about taxpayer's money being spent on perceived luxuries.

It rather sounds as though you have little experience of people with significant MH issues, @DipsyDee .

When someone is seriously unwell, no amount of "doing something" for themself will build their confidence unless they also have access to efficient and effective therapies, professional support, appropriate medication and a supportive and understanding network of family and friends. And I can assure you that access to therapy is very, very difficult.

I've had clients who have been waiting for EMDR therapy for PTSD for several years, therapeutic counselling is limited to a fixed number of sessions, and often ends before it has achieved anything, many of my clients only see a mental health professional twice a year, and frequently not even that often. Mental health services are shockingly under-resourced, pressure on staff is considerable, and there is a high turnover of staff so even those who do get some meaningful help often have frequent changes of worker so that there is a lack of consistency in the help that they get.

CAMHS appears to be even worse than adult MH services. My friend's son (autism, C-PTSD, depression and GAD all diagnosed) waited 6 years just to be assessed. By the time he was diagnosed, he was 17, and very soon had to start all over again with adult MH services. He was out of school for most of that time.

I helped him get DLA, and then PIP when he reached 16. He uses his PIP to pay for therapy privately, and is now able to actually leave the house on his own some of the time and to get to his therapist independently. Friend is now exploring charitable funding for the EMDR therapy he should have had years ago.

If there was better access to effective support and treatment for mental health, there wouldn't be so many people dependent on state support just to stay alive.

And again. There are people receiving PIP who also pay tax

I agree, a friends bloody idle but winds their mother round their little finger adult child has claimed and was awarded PIP. As far as I can make out the award was mostly to do with extreme anxiety and inability to get to appointments etc due to fear of using public transport - among other issues. Did not of course mention that the mother has been the child’s personal chauffeur on demand for the past twenty years, and the many trips that the child has taken independently to the USA to further a personal hobby, were not mentioned in the application!

Sadly OP, there are many such stories, I feel sorry for those who do rely on the independence that a PIP award gives them, because every exposed PIP cheat blackens their name too.

PS this particular persons PIP award was refused at the last application. They were not happy!

"and if you are dependent on other people to fund your PIP/DLA then ultimately you can't be massively shocked when the general population want restrictions put in place and start to get angry about taxpayer's money being spent on perceived luxuries."

Does this apply to all benefits including child benefit?

It’s a bit like the chicken and the egg though. Mental health services are so underfunded because the government is skint, but the government is skint because it is doling out money to people to compensate them for MH services being so shit.

Stop the money and replace it with services. This will remove those just looking for free cash pretty quickly, and keep services for those in genuine need. Is this not a good thing?

I 💯 agree there is nowhere near enough support for mental health issues which is near epidemic levels. Mental health is ALWAYS on the short end of the stick when it comes to funding especially in young people where there can be up to a 3 year waiting list just to have an initial assessment. If mental health trusts were able to pick up people at an earlier stage it would make all the difference

Everyone in this country pays tax to some extent (VAT). I don't really know what your point is. Someone recieving PIP isn't funding their own PIP payments through their taxation. It isn't put in a neat pot for them.