Do people really think PIP claimants are fraudsters?!

[Greedybilly]

As someone with a chronic illness in the middle of claiming PIP I think it's important to point out it's very stressful to go through the process and actually get the benefit.
To those who were inferring it's an easy blag - I would say yes there will always be a few scammers who claim fraudulently ( though god knows how tbh?) the majority have to struggle for years/go through appeals/give up.
Just saying this for balance as I feel MN is turning slghtly into the Daily Fail.

You seem to have a lot of hands on experience. How did you find claiming PIP?

I have severely disabled children and have been put through the mill by the DWP. Tons and tons of pages of evidence from multiple specialists, school, therapists etc weren't enough to qualify. We needed a tribunal. You cannot claim without hard evidence. this is nothing anyone can make up.

How easy did you find it to claim??? @MyLimeGuide What evidence did you need?

I think a lot of people do claim under false pretences. The Numbers claiming for depression and anxiety especially have really increased in recent years. The sensible ones won’t be blagging to their friends. We have several benefit cheat families at my local school. Parents who pretend to live separately and claim fsm etc while dad lives with his mum??

Those that are pennies over are then going to be worse off because of the passporting benefits - free carers tickets, bus passes, railcards, etc

According to Scope the average monthly disability cost is £1000

The worst that can happen is you dont get it. And I have never had a bad assessment. They have always been so lovely. And I know that that isnt everyone's experience, but what I have found

This has just all been comprehensively hashed out over here - PIP Fraud- now even the DWP staff themselves are it! | Mumsnet

Do we need another thread saying the same bullshit?

Thank you for the info, very helpful & I appreciate it x

We don't. But there will be no doubt another one tomorrow as well.

I think what a lot of folk don't get is most of us do not think people are sitting there deliberately embellishing claims etc.

We think:

• the scope of who is eligible is too wide and covers too many milder conditions, particularly those where the medical evidence is built up primarily around years of seeing doctors/receiving medical treatment for self reported symptoms that can't be clinically diagnosed
• some people have a lot of struggles generally, lack resilience and self worth, and genuinely do believe that something being difficult or uncomfortable for them means they "can't do it".

I do not think people are lying to get it. I think they probably are eligible under the current roles based on their own perception of the extent to which their conditions impair them.

I think the rules need to be narrowed to cover a reduced spectrum and allow funds to be focussed on those who are seriously/permanently disabled.

What is the line though? How much should someone struggle due to disability before they are allowed help?

Absolutely there are people that get it fraudulently. My daughter’s friend is a Prime example. She is diagnosed with 2 mental health conditions but they do not stop her doing anything. She hasn’t worked ever. I also know another 18 year old boy also diagnosed with autism. He drives, has a mobility car and is out and about everyday. He does a competitive sport and gets himself to competitions and training several times a week. If you look at the mobility questions for PIP he must have lied somewhere because he is fully mobile and can make and plan a journey independently. I did ask his mum and she said his consultant provided evidence for his “kidney condition”. So obviously he does have a kidney problem but if it doesn’t affect his mobility so how is that not fraudulent. There are many people being denied PIP that should have it .

Personally I found the process fairly easy for my own son . He had a face to face which helped and was awarded with no issues. I think I found it easy because DLA was such a pain.

What’s that got to do with Pip?

I have a small pension. But it’s nothing to do with pip. I couldn’t afford to pay for a cleaner/ various therapies, or someone to make meals without it.

But it’s not all about how mobile someone is. If the claimant lies to the doctor about mental health struggles the doctor had to believe them.

I agree with @NuovaPilbeam. Many posters claim it’s really hard to get Pip however there seems to be many young people, and I know one, who have anxiety/adhd etc and get Pip. The person I know gets higher rate and uses it for a car.

In my view the country can’t afford these tax free payments just because someone struggles with leaving the house occasionally. It also amazes me that this money can be used for anything not necessarily things to make their life easier. Some
people are just not resilient and the constant mental health messages don’t help. I think it’s important to recognise and discuss MH but I feel it’s gone too far. Personally I would rather see more money go to those with physical disabilities.

The ultra rich aren’t impoverishing anyone. It’s the small businesses that are shafting HMRC. Did you even read the link you attached?

I investigate benefit fraud, mainly PIP but also others and in the cases I've worked 99% of them have been fraudulent.

But thats a very small percentage of the actual amount of claims out there. Some of the cases are people who have just not updated their circumstances but lots of them were from Covid when the claiming rules were relaxed.

Some genuinely need and deserve it and are wrongly judged because, like with other systems, there are always some who cheat.

My dd is one of those young people you talk so kindly about.

She is too anxious to ever use public transport. She will be mute when talking to people in authority. Just because you can’t see it doesn’t mean it’s not there.

Shes on full PIP by the way.

The experience of claiming PIP is very similar to that of applying to a job.

Take two people. One is exactly who the employer is looking for in every way. However, they have no experience or clue how to fill in their application and are not good at interviewing.

The other dors not the qualifications for the job or right attitude. However their uncle works for the company and told them how to fill in the application and their mum has spent hours coaching them how to answer interview questions.

Who do you think is going to get the job?

More abd more PIP applicants arw well aware what they did to write and say to tick the right boxes. Organisations that were rightly set up to help those in need are now helping those who just want to find out what they need to say to score points.

Many have learned that any medical professionals will report what they are told because clinicians are expected to believe what patients tell them. So if you tell your GP that you are never leaving home because you start to have panic attacks as soon as you get to your gate, that's what they will write in your notes. Same as your orthopaedics consultant will write that you can only walk x metres if that what you tell him or if you shout you are suddenly in too much pain after walking the length of the corridor.

I am pretty confident that I was determine to claim PIP I could manage it. It might take quite a few months but I could get the medical reports, write an application and say what needs to be heard to get the points.

It might not be an easy stress free process to go through it but it doesn't mean it can't be done and for some, years of extra money, access to extra support etc...is worth it exaggerating their su.ptoms and how it affects them.

They don’t use GP letters. It says it specifically on the form

I wonder.

how many of you telling us here you know of someone fraudulently claiming have reported that person? I mean, if you're so determined they're taking the piss, report it.

Replace GP by consultants. The point remains.

And yet no consultant has ever written me a letter for my full pip.

Same here. I put them as a reference but no idea if theyve been contacted

if you're that determined to defraud PIP by spending months going through the process of an incorrect diagnosis, there is more wrong with you than defrauding DWP.

It's taken me about 8 years of GP appointments, physiotherapy sessions, and referrals, several phonecalls, a couple of complaints to PALs, pain management clinic and three 2 year waiting lists, several blood tests, an MRI, a CT scan and an X-ray to get my current diagnosis and all the paperwork to be awarded pip.

So she gets £110 a week for not being able to talk to people or use public transport? That seems ridiculous. The need to get on the NHS mental health waiting list and try any drugs that work and learn to ride a bike.