DS hasn't been to school yet this academic year

[GoldenPlanet]

I wasn't sure what to title this and that's not the main issue really. Will try keep this brief and will answer any questions.

I have 2 DS’s DS1 is 16 in November and DS2 is 15 in about 2 weeks. They have totally different personalities, DS1 is more outgoing and very popular whereas DS2 is quiet and sensitive. They both share a room and do share some interests

He started secondary school and struggled to fit in immediately, DS1 would say he would follow him around at lunch which he hated, he likes football but not playing it so he'd stand there watching them which DS1 would say was embarrassing. He then started saying he was “emo”, started listening to rock bands, wearing black, painting his nails , he tried to put eyeliner on, I sort of left him be though this has been the case for 3 years now! He dyes his hair black and has done for the last 2 years, maybe I shouldn't allow it but school allow natural colours so I don't know. Initially he did it on his own (in the summer before year 8) so I thought better I know? I do worry about the damage it's doing to his hair though.

Anyway, he did become friendly with some boys from drama club but never really hung around with them in school, DS1 said he'd see him on his own and DS1 never wanted anything to do with him in school. He’d constantly say we didn't care about him and I didn't understand him etc etc, that he had no friends, he was called weird etc. I may have posted something on here on a different account at the time I'm unsure. This was in Y7 and 8 mostly.

He cares a lot about his hair and looks. In year 9 things ramped up a lot, I guess because of puberty and this is another issue because he hates it. He's been crying more often and it's hard to tell him everyone is uncomfortable during puberty because he sees DS1 and he's very confident and has told him in the past to stop being dramatic (which didn't help!). His behaviour in school really slipped too, he was getting negative behaviour points, skipping lessons and giving attitude which is so not like him.

He began school refusal and I tried everything, taking his devices until he went and this would work but then he didn't go in the last 2 weeks. He didn't have any devices at all but didn't care he just said I didn't understand him and hated him. Summer was terrible I gave his devices back but they were arguing constantly, DS2 would complain about DS1 spraying deodorant in their room. Constant fighting and DS2’s attitude was terrible toward both myself and DS1. He cried a lot and seemed so angry. He stole alcohol and got extremely drunk.

He was meant to go back to school on Wednesday but refused and is adament he's not going back ever. It just feels really extreme. DS1 isn't like this, I grew up with 2 brothers and neither of them was like this either.

CAMHS referral was put in but God knows when they'll see him, it was a struggle trying to get the GP to even refer as they didn't understand the issue and kept brushing it off as normal

Does your DS have any positive male role models in his life who can spend some time with him over the next few days? Perhaps take him out and talk to him a bit.

I know this might sound odd but I know quite a few teenage boys who have really got in to fishing with their dads and uncles. It gives them time in the outdoors, a peaceful environment away from tech, and a chance to talk without any awkwardness or confrontation. Some of those boys definitely fit into the Emo type.

Where is his Dad in all of this? And his uncles?

Not all schools have expensive uniforms, though. Some near us it’s literally a logoed jumper.

I think you need to look at least. To say you’re closing that door because of uniform isn’t right. Schools will try to help with that.

@GoldenPlanet i have two dcs with similar age gap.
dc2 also struggled a lot at secondary - he is autistic and this showed mostly in social settings. eg struggling with friendships was a huge one.

Ive never expected dc1 to support dc2, spend time with him at school etc… it wasn’t dc1 role. And you dint usually see Y11 hanging out with Y10…
In your case, theyre also sharing a room which makes it even worse. They need a break from each other.

Also I think you’re concentrating on the wrong thing. His hair colour or picking spots (which is very likely to be anxiety driven btw) are really very small side issues.
Much more important is the fact he sounds like he has some SN of some sort. Tbh your OP made me think of dc2 (who as I said is in the spectrum).
please dint rely on school to tell you about SN. They’re notoriously bad at ‘seeing’ SN, esp in children/teen that can mask.
At the very least, Theres some MH issues going on. He needs to see a counsellor/GP. School should offer support there too.

The colleges don't advertise "14+ courses" but that doesn't mean there are no suitable courses.

I don't expect DS1 to hang out with DS2 in school, the most I expected was when DS2 started and I asked DS1 to wait for him after school so they could get the bus together, only until he was settled and he did.

His dad lives in Scotland (we're in England) and he doesn't see them much since moving only really during holidays. They went for 3 weeks in the summer and I thought that may help but it didn't, DS1 said DS2 was the same there and didn't want to do anything. His dad forced him to go places and then was annoyed with DS2 for ruining it (their dad not DS1) by being in a mood. I don't have much contact with his dad and we don't really get along and he says DS2 needs to toughen up. Apparently their dad threatened that DS2 wouldn't go and see him next time, again this was from DS1 as DS2 never told me any of this nor did their dad. One of my brothers has passed away and the other lives abroad.

I don't mind about how he has his hair but I am worried about the spot picking because of infection/scarring. He just says he doesn't like them.

I know high functioning autism is a thing but I don't think he is autistic and neither does the school (this was from a SENCO type person)

He sounds highly anxious and is getting to burnout - being forced to go places isn’t going to help

if he is in burnout forcing isn’t going to help

Stop talking about ds1! You've mentioned him in every post. Stop taking everything ds1 says about ds2 at face value. Stop asking ds1 for his opinions. Your poor younger son must feel like a poor second with his personality being picked apart by the 2 of you. (I'm sure that's not how it is in real life but that's how it comes across on here)

Ds2 sounds hugely anxious and it sounds like he has been for a very long time. Poor lad.

He needs space from his brother. At home and at school. Maybe one of them should have gone with their dad and one stayed at home in the holidays? Could one sleep in the living room or something?

I have 2 ds' just a school year apart and it is hard to make sure they're both happy and their own person. I know.

It wasn't possible for just one to go at a time, their dad had 3 weeks off work so one couldn't have gone when the other came home. They did go away for about a week of that too and if he took one without the other it wouldn't have been fair.

He can't just stay off school though, I'll get fined. I can't just dereg him and say I'm homeschooling when I'm not either. The school told me how important it is he goes especially during the first week but that didn't happen, they told me he must go in today and again it didn't happen. He refused to get dressed and then refused to give me his switch, I told him he'd get it back if he went or even just tried to go like even if he just put his uniform on but he refused.

He usually then spends the day on DS1’s PlayStation or asleep, it's a sunny day and he won't even go for a walk with me. I asked when he came down for lunch and he said no and went back to his room

So why havent you taken the playstation out of the room? You are being far to passive.
Go upstairs & speak to your son and find out exactly why he is refusing - and what you can do as a parent to make things better for him. Go now, and come back & post once you find out what he says.

You won't get fined if he can't attend due to emotional based school avoidance. If he is unable to attend the LA must provide a suitable alternative. There's no point making life miserable for him at home either. Please read some stuff by Naomi Fisher and actually educate yourself on this. He's probably in burn out so yes he is going to use his time sleeping and gaming right now.

Do you spend any time with him by himself? He sounds utterly miserable and to be quite honest, something of a possible risk to himself if you allow this to continue.

DS1 needs to learn to button his lip. Sounds like he is a chip off the "man up" approach from your ex. You need to come down heavily on negative comments. If you can't say something nice etc.

DS2 - arrange an appointment with the school and if necessary ask if someone could come to you. He needs an education, life isn't always about only getting to do things you want to do. Has he made the right subject choices and could any changes be accommodated. Perhaps an open discussion re that would help. If nothing else he might feel actually "heard" and that you value him and love him and want him to be happy. Forget about the hair, it's irrelevant what colour it is.

Is he Year 9 so only starting his GCSE cycle. A different school could be a really fresh start [uniform cost excepted] and it's worth seeing if his preferred subject choices could work. Then it's a conversation with the school about support for uniform cost, second hand and selling his new stuff. Hopefully some of it is in common.

@Willowy2 sadly that isn’t necessarily true! In fact it often isn’t. It should be but it isn’t

What are you prepared to do to make your DS2 happier, OP? What do you want the outcome to be? How much effort are you prepared to put in?

He's a child who is failing to thrive in his present environment. He needs adults to step in and help him here, he doesn't have the resources to do it on his own.

You need to stop saying what you can't do and think about what you can do.

There’s a lot of “DS1 saw him do this” and “DS1 told me he did that” and “DS1 says…”

Request a meeting with the SENCO. The scope of SEN is wide. It is about far more than academic ability and a diagnosis isn’t required. It is clear DS needs far more support than he is receiving. What have they/you already tried?

If DS can’t attend school because of his MH, then the absence should be authorised, thus no fines/prosecution. If the school doesn’t authorise the absence, you can challenge the decision.

If DS can’t attend school, request alternative provision. Ultimately, this is the responsibility of the LA. This duty applies as soon as it becomes clear 15 days will be missed. These days don’t have to have already been missed or consecutive. And provision should begin by the sixth day. IPSEA has a model letter you can use. If the LA refuse, they can challenge them.

Also consider requesting an EHCNA. IPSEA also has a model letter for this. The benefit of an EHCP is it can include therapeutic support DC wouldn’t otherwise receive.

DS1 sounds like a very poor friend to his brother (disloyal, tells tales to mummy) and DS2 would probably be much happier in an environment where he didn't have to put up with his own brother, the golden child, "othering" him as odd.

OP must be feeling awful about this whole thing. I’m sorry this is on you alone OP. Their dad doesn’t seem emotionally intelligent and his approach will never work, demanding, forcing.

your son from what you describe does sound like he might be neurodivergent, if you really don’t see it, it could be because you might also be undiagnosed. Close genetic links are well known.

i was undiagnosed as a teenager for many reasons. School thought my attendance and exam results pointed to nothing being wrong.

however, at home my mum and I would argue constantly about me going to school, it’s the things the school didn’t see behind closed doors. I had a terrible social life in school, almost no mates, masking day in day out caused me a lot of emotional pain, made me lash out, shut down, refuse to participate etc

my mother was also undiagnosed, so we were two neurodivergents masking thru life, how was she ever gonna spot my symptoms if she didn’t know them herself?

anyway I’m getting off the point a bit.
getting assessed doesn’t really matter right now but understanding his symptoms might.

i believe that self diagnosis for certainly autism and/or adhd can be life savers. It means you can finally put a name to some behaviours and patterns, then put things into place to aid him. It can make a lot of sense for past behaviour.

could you share your room w him? Place a small room divider (they have some in ikea) and to allow him some privacy maybe only use it to sleep in at night and keep your clothes there?

changing schools might be helpful, I think writing that off completely without checking first isn’t right.
its tough looking around asking questions when you also have a job and you’re on your own but even if it takes a bit of time, at least trying something different could help all of you.

you could enquire about help with uniforms if you explain your situation, sell the old uniform if he is accepted somewhere else?

your boys seem so different right now, being a diff school might help his mood and refusal, there might be a different choice of subjects, or as someone pointed out, there might be a way to find a local college to do his exams at.

use ChatGPT to craft a clear message to forward to any other schools/colleges to at least give you answers to questions so things don’t feel so hopeless.

there is no answers but clearly he can’t keep going like this for much longer. I don’t see how staying put but hoping for him to snap out of it is realistic in this case

best of luck OP

Most people would prefer to stay at home. You have got to do some things you don't want too sometimes.
Hated secondary school was verbally bullied, but it never occurred to me to.kick.up and refuse to go to school.
It wasn't the done thing.

Part of me wonders if this is the reason ds2 is having problems. Ds1 is clearly the golden child in this situation & living in his brothers shadow.
comparison is the thief of joy.

Firstly, let me say that you are not the only one, there are Thousands of parents all over the country going through similar.

Let me point you in the direction of these people https://notfineinschool.co.uk/ it’s a great site, full of resources and advice etc, there is also a Facebook page.

You school SENCO is not placed to make a diagnosis, the way young people behave inside, and outside, of school are not the same thing. Apply directly to your local council for an EHCP assesment … you may well not get an EHCP, but you will get some really helpful assessments done.

Reframe “school refusal” to “emotionally based school avoidance” or EBSA.. take the blame out of it. “Refusal” brings with is some element of choice, and often young people in this situation don’t feel like they have a choice - this is why taking devices away does not work. You are trying to punish / reward behaviour that they don’t have control over.

Get back to the GP and get your pointy elbows out to get a proper ND Assesment. Best thing that happened to us, one of the great things was getting the medication to help with her anxiety.

Don’t just agree to Home School.. it’s a big commitment. School need to work out why they are not meeting your child’s needs, and how they are going to meet them - it’s not all on your shoulders to solve.

Don’t fight over school attendance, the worst thing you can do is to make it a battleground. Your child need to know you are 100% on thier side, it’s the only way they will talk to you.

I speak from experience!

I've asked him why in the past and he said he'd rather stay home, he said he isn't being bullied but I know children can hide that.

I haven't taken the PlayStation out of their room because its DS1’s, that doesn't seem fair when he's going to school. DS2 has just gone into year 10, he's 14 and will be 15 in 2 weeks.

I do spend time with just him, I took him for lunch and trampolining in the summer holidays when eldest was with his friends and he still complained the whole time, he seemed to have fun at the trampoline park but he complained during lunch afterwards that he wanted to go home, he wasn't having fun and was on his phone the whole time. Then when I took him home he accused me of hating him, this is what happens a lot. I tried to take both of them to the cinema a few weeks ago, he would've enjoyed the film but he refused to get out of the car then complained when DS1 went anyway. And started saying he wanted to watch it. It's like he doesn't want to do something fun but doesn't want anyone else to either.

Yes it's a lot of DS1 said as DS2 doesn't tell me what's happening, he didn't tell me anything about what happened at their dads so I wouldn't have had a clue if DS1 hadn't said (and DS2 denied it all).

No major advice OP but I used to work for the School Attendance team in my LA, not sure if it differs but it's not an immediate fine for non-attendance. What will happen is the school have to try and intervene first - this includes letters and meetings with yourself. They need to be able to evidence they've set up support and tried to get him in. If your DS is still refusing then it may go to the LA who will send you a letter basically saying his attendance is low and you need to do something. It's not an immediate fine/court case, there's actually a lot of steps before it gets to that point and generally if you can evidence you've been trying to get him in it shouldn't go any further. We were aware that parents aren't going to be able to physically pick up and drag a 15yo boy to school.

Also to the previous poster who said you should encourage him to ditch the 'emo' look I would strongly advise against that - I also dyed my hair black in school and wore a lot of dark clothes (still do in fact), if he's telling you 'you don't understand me' then telling him to change his style/look will not help his overall mood or feeling.

As others have said, put aside thoughts of DS1 for a while and focus on DS2 - have you sat down and asked him what the actual problem is? The school itself, being with his brother nearly all the time, identity issues etc. A lot of what you've told us about DS2 seems to have come second hand from DS1.

She needs to go to the GP with her son though, and start the ball in motion with regards to his school issues rather than just insisting he has to go in which clearly isn't working for them. If he is absent from school for a period of time they won't just whack on a fine, especially if there has been GP involvement and trying to work with the school etc. If that all fails, I would absolutely be deregistering him to avoid fines and to take the pressure off.

Surely you can take the PlayStation during the day and let DS1 have it back after school?

Apart from uniform costs, what are your main reservations about changing schools? You are assuming certain courses/classes would be full/unavailable but don't know for sure. Isn't this worth checking? You think friendship groups are fixed by year 10 but he doesn't have friends at his current school so would be no worse off!

A girl recently joined DS1's form class from a different school. He's in year 11. It's do-able if you try.

I think it sounds like hes screaming out for attention. Pushing his friends away then complaining of having no one suggests he wants them to want to be with him. Unfortunately the kids won't get that and will eventually ignore him

I also think when kids dress differently and dye their hair they are looking for attention.

He sounds really shy as well. He needs more confidence. I would remove his phone or at least limit the time he has on it. Also make sure he's not reading a lot of nonsense on it or that no one is influencing him.