PIP Fraud- now even the DWP staff themselves are it!

[TempNameForObviousReasons]

Clifford Redman, 57, claimed he had severe mobility issues and needed daily help - but he was caught out after being filmed going to the gym and on long walks https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/2105390/dwp-fraudster-claimed-19k-caught-gym

Tip of the iceberg, serious reform needed.

GPs and consultants weren’t born yesterday. They are experienced experts and will most likely spot inconsistencies in patients description of symptoms. For most conditions there are objective tests or examinations.

Even with conditions like ADHD, where there are no blood tests of whatever, they spend hours questioning you, asking the same questions in different ways and getting information from other people and written records such as school reports,

Of course they are not foolproof. But they don’t just write down what the patient says without considering it critically.

That post is one of the vilest things I've seen on Mumsnet in a long time. I can't believe you would attack someone who is raising two disabled teens whilst disabled themselves and dealing with severe chronic pain. Go and get an attitude adjustment.

Only on this thread are GPs infallible and the font of all knowledge. Go on any other thread, actually about GPs and it’s clear as day how often they get it wrong. Unsurprisingly, since they are under massive pressure.

Attack someone 🙄 Away and get a grip of yourself 😂 I have a disability myself (eds) along with a disabled DC. What I don't appreciate is someone diminishing how hard everyone else has it and calling people fucking dumb for daring to have a different opinion.

Not all opinions are created equal, just sayin'...

No, they certainly aren't....

Please don’t feel the need to justify yourself to ignorant cretins.

The problem with yours is that it's the classic 'well, I'm disabled and so are my kids, and I don't need any of the stuff that you get, so therefore neither do you'. Every person is an individual, with individual needs and problems. Your life is not the same as @Kreepture 's life.

And when a poster gets irate because of the swathes of hateful ableist posts that you get on threads like this one, when someone gets tired of being told that they don't need this, that or the other, and that their every purchase should be monitored just because they're disabled... then it would help to understand that the anger sometimes slips out. If you've read this full thread (and I really hope you have) then you will, I hope, have seen for yourself the (wilful) ignorance that many people have around disabilities. And being disabled yourself, you'll show a bit of support and sympathy.

If you can't do that, you're part of the problem.

The problem with a needs - cost based system is how do you work out a monthly or yearly amount? When does it get paid? How often is it paid? What happens if you get an amount for a wheelchair but they say it has to last 5 years (like an nhs one is issued for) and after 2 years it’s broken, no longer fit for purpose?

It's just not a better system in terms of meeting need.

I do however think PIP should have a 3 tier daily living split like DLA because there’s only 4 points between standard and enhanced. DS gets 22 points, 12 points needed for enhanced (8 for standard) and yet someone with a severe learning disability or severe quadraplegia etc could get the maximum 84 points.

The descriptors often have 4 different levels.

It wouldn’t be easy to figure out but I would support a review of this part of the system.

I apologise. I was not in a good place this morning.. when i said about being exhausted/emotionally void i meant it.. i've spent the last 24hrs trying to deal with the dept of one college and been patronised from one end of a meeting to the other by people who do not get disability in the slightest, which has meant having to pull the 'call the SEND dept' cord.. and literally spent all day on phone/firing emails to people.

I should have tempered my language to make the point that i was making, and i shouldn't have vented my frustration and pain at you in my reply.

Agree. The 'mostly' was intended to take account of that.

Well said.

Totally.

imagine if the DM, telegraph express or similar did a daily piece on someone disabled. There is a whole range of disabilities they could cover.

They could show the world those with disabilities who are getting up every day, working through pain and barriers to accessibility and making a positive contribution to the economy.

They could show the carers for those with severe disabilities that prevent working caring for their family and mention how much they save the economy.

However ….. that’s not the narrative they want. The truth - sadly - hurts.

My main thought was learning that MND can happen to anyone and come from absolutely nowhere.

Quite aside from the cornucopia of progressive and debilitating diseases that can appear out of nowhere (i.e. eluding genetic testing, so wouldn't be prevented with an "aggressive" pre natal programme of elimination) there are plenty of diseases that can "just happen" and which will not only spoil your day, but the rest of your life.

Then, of course, you have accidents. Even if you just euthanise people who are to blame for their own injuries, that would still leave people whose injuries are someone elses fault. I mean if we are really dedicating ourselves to the concept that no one should ever pay towards anyone elses care then I guess it would just be a case of though luck. Especially with younger victims as they could live a long time just sucking the resources out of society.

I think I've covered it all, but am quite prepared to accept there could be some gaps.

I pay for monthly insurance to ensure I receive my current salary until pension age if I am deemed too ill to work. I thought this was a pretty common thing to do but it seems that many people become ill with nothing to fall back on. This sort of insurance - and fully salary for a set time redundancy insurance - ought to be something the state offers to incentivise people to make plans incase these unfortunate things arise, with the current level of benefit available for those who make no such provision.

No commercial insurer is ever going to take on the risk of an open ended claim that could result in 50+ years of payments at £100,000 a year. Which is cheap compared to some peoples very complex needs when they have been in a car accident and become quadriplegic needing 24/7 care.

Right. Now we've batted that bollocks out of the park, can we get back to earth ?

Balls yes. I should have done that when I was 15, before I got diagnosed. Ever tried getting life insurance with a disability?

I don't think it is bollocks. You are using an extreme example with a super high sum assured and a super long term.

I don't think PP meant taking out a policy that provides all sorts of care needs forever. But Critical illness policies are available. Many insurers will provide a 50% or 66% of salary Income Protection policy until SP age. It is not unreasonably priced. No one suggests that these will cover every and all eventualities, but they will go a long way to reduce depenence on the state.

There is the question of affordability, especially with the current squeeze, but its not a completely unreasonable suggestion.

@K0OLA1D of course with an existing disability this is clearly a non-starter.

@Pavingprincess I agree, some degree of tax relief should be available, like with pension contributions. Anything that you can do to ease your dependence on the state should be financially encouraged. Like private medical insurance and private education, but hey, our overlords went the other way on that and saw it as a cash cow.

Exactly, but the idea is if those that can self fund do, more money would be left for those with lifelong disabilities.

I don't think it is bollocks. You are using an extreme example with a super high sum assured and a super long term.

Yes, it's called "an edge case".

It's what I have spent my life doing when people dream up schemes in tbeir heads and try to sell them to grown ups.

In the fantasy football version of "people have to buy insurance" what will happen is insurers will cherry pick all the nice risks that they will never have to pay out for (which is a piece of piss now the health data on all UK citizens is in the hands of Palantir), and then exclude the rest so that the state ends up paying.

It's almost like the current US system.

Many disabled or chronically ill people cannot ‘self fund’, which is the point.

I think a lot of PP would say "they should have thought of that before".

It's odd they are so shy on this thread. I've heard it advanced much more vocally in person.