PIP Fraud- now even the DWP staff themselves are it!

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Clifford Redman, 57, claimed he had severe mobility issues and needed daily help - but he was caught out after being filmed going to the gym and on long walks https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/2105390/dwp-fraudster-claimed-19k-caught-gym

Tip of the iceberg, serious reform needed.

This. There's this horrific perception that you're not 'properly' disabled unless you're sitting at home 24/7 and can't do anything at all for yourself. And if that's you, the state should definitely give you the princely sums currently available, but you're only allowed to spend the money on wheelchairs and gruel.

feels like a media campaign to get rid of the “useless eaters”

If we are going to cull benefit scroungers, we could start with pensioners.

But this is the thing. I don't dislike disabled people. I want them to be looked after. I am fortunate to not be in that position and would absolutely not swap.

I am glad that a portion of the tax I pay goes towards making their lives bearable.

I am offended that anyone could lie and cheat the system because they are taking money from me that I had to work for, that they don't deserve it. This isn't an attack on you.

I’m not so sure it’s as clear cut as lying and cheating. Even when you have a permanent, progressive disease you still have good and bad days. You still have times where you feel ok and then it kicks you back in the teeth. You never know how long that being ok will last. If you phone up DWP (hah hah have you tried phoning them?!) every time you had a good week and they stopped the PIP payments, then the next week you are back to being bad again, it’s going to take you 9-12 months to get those payments reinstated. Where do you draw the line?

Someone tries to explain to you the impact their disability has on their functioning, such that they had to leave their own home to get away from a stimulus that causes them pain, and you respond by characterising that as 'swanning off on holiday at the taxpayer's expense'. Vile.

The recurring factor is that people seem to group all disabled people into one bucket. There are many that are very capable. I've posted before about a colleague who is in wheel chair and gets pip but earns £160k. He doesn't need PIP - is that the best allocation of a limited pool of resources. I'd rather see a system based on need. The idea of high earning disabled people seems like a mystery to many people but there are many.

@Wherehaveallthegoodmengone your comparison doesn’t work that well because tax is a payment to the government and PIP is a payment from the government.

Disabled and sick people apply for PIP and some get it and some don’t. The only ones who get awarded are those who have provided sufficient proof of their difficulties. When I say ‘sufficient’, believe me that is A LOT of evidence. You can’t just have a letter from your GP, you need chapter and verse from numerous sources.

in contrast, businessesstill end up paying tax, however well or badly you make up your books.

I go to the gym because of my mobility issues. I genuinely can't afford to lose any more muscle. PIP helps me afford my gym membership.

PIP opens the door to other things such as a blue badge which as a wheelchair user your colleague would need.

I don’t disagree on the earning cap tho. Something along the line of child benefit where it’s clawed back or lost at a certain level of earning maybe. That way the benefit could be claimed for access to the other things and then repaid via tax return/tax code.

I'm not disabled, my DS is.

But threads like these are an attack on disabled people. They feed into the narrative pushed by the likes of Reform, the Mail, the Express and that, which is that disabled people are living their absolute best life and are for the most part undeserving. We've been fed the narrative of 'the undeserving poor' since 2010 and most people fall for it hook, line and sinker.

Yes, there are undoubtedly people who cheat the system. They aren't a massive majority though. The narrative about third generations of families living on benefits has been thoroughly debunked. People in the UK have been told to envy others, look down on the less fortunate, kick down and put down wherever they can. And what does it say about those people that they actually believe what they have been told and act accordingly?

You may want disabled people supported, but you are still pushing the narrative that many of them are cheating the system. There's no evidence to support that, nor is there evidence that the UK has more disabled people than any other European nation, or that benefit levels for disabled people are sky high. The link I posted says otherwise.

So why can't we all stop and think, put a little nuance into what we post and accept the reality: that we have an ageing population, that people born with disabilities now live longer because we have better healthcare, and so need support for longer? That there are reasons for our current situation which aren't to do with people scamming the system?

And above all, why are we blaming disabled people instead of looking at making employers do much, much better at enabling disabled people to find and stay in work? Why aren't we telling our government and our businesses to invest in us instead of scapegoating those worse off than we are?

I despair.

Exactly! I’ve just had a wake up call from my neurologist last week that muscle tone has decreased in all limbs. I need to be proactive to prevent myself getting worse which will cost the NHS even more in the long run.

Ask Jeremy Vine everyday he goes on, the other week he said to a disabled man he should stop eating. I think he has an eating disorder.

Only if you get full amount on mobility part of PIP. I had to apply separately for blue badge.

Mine is neuro too. I started a couple of years ago, and it's made a massive difference. I was really nervous initially - former wheelchair user and I could barely get up the stairs to the gym! I'm still not a fan but it's definitely helped me immeasurably.

Ah that’s good to know! I’ve not been able to find any exercise my body can cope with since 2021 but they tell me the heath fitness PT at my local leisure centre is amazing so I’m feeling hopeful!

PiP is non means tested so the man earning £160 grand isn't acting fraudulently.

Then you're going to have disabled people who are worse off because their disability costs exceed their pip

He does need it though. That is why he was awarded it.

"Perhaps they should have though of that before they became disabled."

Think your comment is purposeful to goad a response, is your life that sad even bad responses are better than none.

PIP doesn't assess need. If he earned £1m he would still get the same PIP. On his earnings without PIP he would still be far better off than most non-disabled people.

There was a reason why I put quote marks around it. I was reporting, not originating.

No he's not. But is it a good use of tax payer funding?

He is the tax payer funding ...

You could say that about any benefits high earners get. I could say the same for child benefit they didn't cut off the income threshold but I don't because we collectively prioritise the spend on those with greater need, which is fair enough. His hobby is buying crypto which he is how spends his money each month - he tells us regularly whether it is up or down.