To be worried about the dark political direction of this country

[Krenonges]

Has anyone else seen the video doing the rounds of Farage being properly grilled in Congress? Honestly, it was the first time I’ve ever seen him held to account, unlike here, where the UK media give him endless airtime and barely challenge him.

They raised his 17 appearances on Russian state TV and his open admiration for Putin. Shocking, but not exactly surprising. Apparently he’s over in the US slagging off the UK, trying to cosy up to Trump, and giving speeches at far-right, anti-abortion events. Is this genuinely what he’s about now?

What I can’t wrap my head around is how he continues to poll so highly. Time and again he seems to act in ways that are completely at odds with the UK’s best interests, yet his supporters see him as some kind of saviour who’ll “stop the boats”. The irony being, of course, that the small boat crisis is a direct consequence of Brexit – the very thing he spent years pushing.

I know politics is never squeaky clean, but this feels different. It feels like there are darker, more insidious forces backing him, with the aim of undermining and dismantling the country bit by bit. It’s frightening to think how many people are still buying into the image he’s carefully crafted for himself, when the reality seems so much murkier.

All I ever hear from Reform voters when I challenge them is 'Yes, but Labour are crap' or 'You're just a leftie'. I'm not that left wing or even a Labour supporter, and i know Labour arent doing a good job right now. I just can't understand why people think Reform is the best alternative when Farage is clearly going to pimp the country out to his rich backers. The 'stop the boats' immigration debate is just the red herring, dog whistle policy that will get him votes.

I agree, but think it's bigger than Farage.

I would like to see for a start off all the parties dissolved.

Politicians should be elected on their morals, what they are going to do rather than hiding behind party politics.

When new parties are formed they should be standing on positive merits.
Lying should have huge consequences, especially during elections.

Last election, I had very little idea on what the local parties were standing for; however I knew in intricate details what the other parties wanted you to think the other parties stood for/had done and why they said was wrong.
I still have very little idea. They're still governing on that policy - and anything wrong is someone else's fault.

"If you tell a lie publicly, people remember that rather than the corrections, so it doesn't matter that it's a lie. Better to put the lies out there to win." Not quite an actual quote word for word from a local (not politician, but someone heavily involved) person, but that's roughly what they said. They admitted they were deliberately putting lies out to pull others down.

I want to see honest people who are leading us. People who will take a moral stand when they feel it's right - not ones that will be swayed by the popularity wind with one eye on the next election.
I might disagree with their opinions, but I respect their right to have different ones to me. And that's what they should be elected for.

They should be being elected on what they believe, not what they think is the popular thought. Not all decisions taken need to be popular.

Not because they've shouted the loudest that the other parties kill kittens in their spare time.

Of course immigration is a real issue! It may not be the only issue, but it is a genuine issue of concern for many people. All over the country the demographic has changed dramatically, and people are shocked at a transformation they never asked for, or were consulted about.

Where I live, in a mid sized Northern city, the influx of of people from African countries,the Middle East and South Asia over the last two years has been astonishing. We were never asked if we wanted this, and have had the population make up of our city changed permanently, along with even more strain on local services.

There is so much wrong in this country at the moment, laws being passed quietly which are slowly chipping away at our freedoms, and huge financial mismanagement. Why do posters on here never mention government waste? Billions given away to other countries while our infrastructure slowly crumbles.
More and more red tape and costs that make it too difficult to start the companies that are the backbone of our economy.

I am a (former) traditional Conservative voter, and loath left wing politics, but will never vote Conservative again after the last appalling government. I think this Labour government has a rather sinister agenda, and feel that we are being manipulated towards Reform for a reason, hence the current focus on the huge immigration numbers we have at the moment. Labour knows this will lose them the next election, but does nothing anyway, why are they pushing people towards Reform?

To be honest, I think that this country is screwed at the moment, I see no one on the political scene able or willing to sort out the country’s problems. How I will vote in the next election, I really have no idea.

Yes I think he’s right about that. Labour thought they’d get a benefit from lowering the voting age but it’s likely to go to Reform or Corbyn / Polanski

Starmer can see the flags. If he wants the vote he has to prove he cares for Britain and Brits. He has to step up and give some love to the British. If he doesn’t , it’s game over…and Nigel will step in and do what he likes.

Farage has a massive mountain to climb. He needs to field around 3,000 candidates next year and then 650 for 2029.

Given the propensity for Reform's vetting to fail, there's plenty of room for fuck ups on a grand scale.

But we can't be complacent. Labour needs to get a grip. It needs to stop chasing the Reform vote and win back its own core voters.

I understand that I really do. But if brexit didn't work for them then why do they believe reform will?
I am centrist but I would totally understand these voters voting for corbyn rather than reform as corbyn is way more likely to actually help them, reform will make their lives worse ( tax breaks for the rich dismantling the NHS etc)

People want change. They don’t feel listened to. Everything is becoming expensive and many are struggling yet they keep being asked for more. They don’t see anyone else who appears to be listening.

I have a friend in counter terrorism who is adamant that Farage is directly on the payroll of the Russian government. He has deliberately worked to sow dissension and hatred in the country and it has worked. Many people are so deep in their own misery as they can see that their quality of life does not in any way reflect that of the most wealthy and they see him as a way of addressing that. What they don’t see is that he is a grifter who is playing on their fears and insecurities whilst raking in wealth for himself and his cronies. I am scared for the future of this country and I am placing all of my hopes on Labour and the Lib Dem’s but I don’t know what they can do. We have been left in such a shitshow after 14 years of the Tories, I honestly don’t think Labour can make an impact even in 5 years and their communication is not good enough. They are doing good things but people don’t know about them and aren’t yet feeling any impact. If Farage and co get in, I may look at leaving the country.

It is, extremely. Do people never take lessons from history?
He brought his speech forward to berate Rayner whilst running his GB news earnings through a shell company to avoid paying tax on it.

What does the Russian govt get for their money? What are they after?

Or worse, that the government are allowing the boats in deliberately or even facilitating it, which is another story altogether.

They could have stopped this if they wanted to. They locked people up for rioting pretty damn quick.

All the people who say immigration isn’t the issue arent experiencing the effects. They are totally totally ignorant of the reality of it, yet immensely vocal, blindly assertive. Ignorance contradicting experience. Incredible.

I would repeat what i said for the previous post
I understand that they want change, I really do. But if brexit didn't work for them then why do they believe reform will?
I am centrist but I would totally understand these voters voting for corbyn rather than reform as corbyn is way more likely to actually help them, reform will make their lives worse ( tax breaks for the rich dismantling the NHS etc)

Brexit hasn’t worked because it hasn’t been allowed to work, in my opinion.

Who did you suppose would step in to do the job’s unpalatable to most British citizens when Brexit sent all of the white, European workers back to their home countries?

Of course people from poor African and Asian nations were going to step in, it was bleeding obvious.

Small boats were only just under 4% of immigration last year btw. Yes it should be zero, yes immigration is still an issue
But reform really lead everyone to think its higher. A wider structured approach to immigration is needed, not a disproportionate populist focus on the boats

All the people who say immigration isn’t the issue arent experiencing the effects

And your evidence for this is what, exactly?

That's reforms soundbite. If you read wider you'll find its not the case
Really, we need to learn lessons, its ridiculous!

I think it’s because despite what many on MN think it really is all about immigration. People are feeling financially squeezed and the rhetoric is that others are being handed things on a plate. Even those who may be more comfortably off are feeling the pressure that the increased population is putting on services such as schools, GPs etc.
I think some see Reform as the only hope of changing it. Others see it as an opportunity to give a bloody nose to the mainstream parties who appear to be ignoring the situation.

And Farage is a master at tapping into those feelings even though he’s just a shameless opportunist.

What I find worrying is the amount of people who say "well it can't get any worse". Yes it really can! Look at the US. People are dying of curable diseases because they can't afford healthcare, homelessness is out of control, women are getting backstreet abortions and don't even have the basic right to maternity leave, citizens are terrified of their police. All in the richest nation in the world.

And your qualification for addressing me as if I’m in court and you are prosecuting me is what, exactly?

Yes, I do believe it will get much worse. The way it is now, compared to ten years ago is such a steep steep decline. Unthinkable.

People believe it’s a real issue because their own circumstances are getting worse, or at least not getting better. The one thing this or any government could could do to diffuse the situation is to sort out the economy.

As Clinton said, ‘it’s the economy stupid’. If the economy was doing well, we had growth, people’s living standards were improving and they felt better off they’d be less concerned about migration, and there’d be more money to spend on public services, infrastructure, care etc.

It’s partly this but also just the not in charge bit which means the gov has used heavy rhetoric to alienate people further. Other countries are seeing similar. It’s just the ending of a system we’ve had for about 70 years. It’ll be messy but voters will push and get the change.

It’s perfectly reasonable to ask for fact based evidence. Anyone can chuck out anecdotal opinion.
We, for example, live in Perth now. Very diverse city, lots of immigrants from all over, I’d guess our block is 50% local, 50% immigrants. It doesn’t appear to affect anyone here adversely because for some reason Scotland is generally more welcoming than England. People rub along seemingly quite happily together. Purely anecdotal, though. I could be entirely wrong, as could you.