To be worried about the dark political direction of this country

[Krenonges]

Has anyone else seen the video doing the rounds of Farage being properly grilled in Congress? Honestly, it was the first time I’ve ever seen him held to account, unlike here, where the UK media give him endless airtime and barely challenge him.

They raised his 17 appearances on Russian state TV and his open admiration for Putin. Shocking, but not exactly surprising. Apparently he’s over in the US slagging off the UK, trying to cosy up to Trump, and giving speeches at far-right, anti-abortion events. Is this genuinely what he’s about now?

What I can’t wrap my head around is how he continues to poll so highly. Time and again he seems to act in ways that are completely at odds with the UK’s best interests, yet his supporters see him as some kind of saviour who’ll “stop the boats”. The irony being, of course, that the small boat crisis is a direct consequence of Brexit – the very thing he spent years pushing.

I know politics is never squeaky clean, but this feels different. It feels like there are darker, more insidious forces backing him, with the aim of undermining and dismantling the country bit by bit. It’s frightening to think how many people are still buying into the image he’s carefully crafted for himself, when the reality seems so much murkier.

All I ever hear from Reform voters when I challenge them is 'Yes, but Labour are crap' or 'You're just a leftie'. I'm not that left wing or even a Labour supporter, and i know Labour arent doing a good job right now. I just can't understand why people think Reform is the best alternative when Farage is clearly going to pimp the country out to his rich backers. The 'stop the boats' immigration debate is just the red herring, dog whistle policy that will get him votes.

Also, he's fucked the country over economically by causing Brexit and now he has the fucking cheek to pretend he cares about Britain. Brexit has created the boat problem. He created the boat problem. How can people not see this. We were told this would happen. The problem isn't Farage, it's the lack of critical thinking skills of the majority of the country.

This, basically.

And the fact that Labour have allowed Farage to completely own political mainstream over the last few months with their timidity and lack of a sense of mission.

I think Starmer is instinctively decent but he doesn’t have the chops or the discipline to lead a government at this moment. His political instincts are poor and he can’t sell the story.

I find Farage utterly repugnant: mendacious and cynical. But he is currently the best rhetorical leader we have by a country mile. It scares the bejusus out of me.

Very much agree op!

I think it’s clear to many people now that far from being a man of the people, Farage’s motivations are racist and monetary.

There’s a You Tube video by Led By Donkeys
which recounts how a teacher at Dulwich College described him as having fascist or neo-Nazi views at a very early age.

I can’t seem to link, maybe some else can please? But in summary, I think he is a very dangerous person.

Exactly! It’s Brexit all over again!

The small boats problem feels different, like a failure of government.

• The native population don't want these guys here and don't believe the majority are genuinely fleeing political persecution.
• The government don't want them here either.
• But they continue to arrive and then we have to accommodate them at significant expense while their claim drags on.
• There's a strong suspicion that most of those who do win the right to stay will not be an economic boon to the country and some are culturally incompatible as well.

It feels as though, somehow, the government aren't in charge.

Cue the opportunist - the plain-speaking man who offers simple solutions.

Edited to add: the fact those solutions won't work isn't an issue for the opportunist - yet ...

Farrage is a shameless opportunist. Told everyone that leaving the EU would solve their problems. Now that has failed he is blaming immigrants. Russian money and the support of the oil and gas industry are making things worse. The press are cheerleading because their owners will make more money from a hard right government. It is very worrying

Looks like Labour cheerleaders are shitting by their pants about a Reform government. Shouldn’t have voted for crooks, incompetents and thieves then, should you.

Why do people actually think Farage will change anything?

We can see the current shit show that is Trump right now and Farage would take us in the same direction. Surely no one in their right mind would think that this is the way to go??

Classic false consciousness, isn't it?

Very well said. 👍🏻👍🏻

Because Reform are untested, and people want change. It’s not difficult to understand.

Labour and Conservative are basically the same, two sides of the same bad penny. Who else is there to vote for? Why not give Reform a try - the other political parties have been disastrous, so Reform can’t be any worse.

Labour have made it more likely Reform is up next.

Yep this and the posts you’re replying to.

He polls highly for the same reason we left the EU.

Because there are a significant number of people who don't feel heard and they will turn to anyone, even someone more extreme than their actual leaning, to feel heard.

People were grumpy about immigration decades ago. It wasn't dealt with by anyone central left or right.

I think too many in Labour (not Starmer) and outside Labour on the vocal Corbynite / Green left have lost sight of the fact that economic immigration is designed to benefit the host country. Obviously the individual immigrant expects to derive benefit, that's why they move, but the primary driver is that they have skills that the host country requires.

I personally like cultural diversity and I've lived in several different countries. But increasing the diversity of the host nation is not ipso facto a benefit.

Daily Mail and Daily Express have shifted their allegiance to Reform from the Tories now. The right wing press are pushing a poisonous agenda into people's brains on a daily basis. I hate how Starmer is also pushed into responding to their agenda. Tony Blair got Murdoch on side very early on and that definitely helped unfortunately. Labour are fighting an absolute tide of negativity. As an aside, Reform have 4 MPs. Four! The media representation from four MPs is insane.

The housing secretary screws up when buying her flat. The minister in charge of reducing homelessness was a landlord making people homeless. The anti-corruption minister and her family were being investigated for corruption. The Tory's drugs minister’s husband owned one of the countries largest cannabis farms…

Vote Labour or Conservative, it doesn’t matter which. You still get the same bunch of arrogant, incompetent, self-serving buffoons that enrich themselves at our expense. It’s not difficult to see why people have given up on them both.

Apart from the boats - which is an ongoing problem - I'm not sure what people thought Labour would do in office with no money - something they've never dealt with before.
Did they expect benefit payment increases, an end to the 2 child cap, the end of UC conditionality?
We are going through a dark period. But it's also because people won't step up and do the right thing. I remember furlough and people enjoying not working and still being paid. People distraught when it ended. We have UC conditionality because if people weren't told they need to work many wouldn't and many aren't.
To many taking out and to few putting in will never work - and no political party can solve that.

Agree with all of this.

You only have to see how the self righteous on this forum have reacted towards those putting up flags to see why some people are pushed towards Farage. Instead of listening to the concerns of a large population in society with empathy, they're simply dismissed as racist knuckle draggers. That's why Farage is gaining momentum.

Because there are a significant number of people who don't feel heard and they will turn to anyone, even someone more extreme than their actual leaning, to feel heard.

I understand people feel like this but are the issues actually to do with immigration?

Can you not remember the protests by British tradesmen when they were undercut time and again because foreign workers were willing to work for low wages that the Brits couldn't compete with. When you have groups of men sharing a house of course they can work for a lower wage than a British man who is struggling to pay rent/mortgage with children. Freedom of movement only works if wages are the same in all the countries involved otherwise it's obvious that the poorer counrtries' population will move to where wages are higher.

Gordon Brown promising British jobs for British workers which never happened. So many people have been let down by both the Tories and Labour since Blair was in Downing Street. Being called racist and a bigot when concerned over immigration. Each government promises to fix immigration and bring numbers down but it's empty promises. People don't feel listened to and haven't for years. It doesn't surprise me that people are starting to listen to Reform.

That's the burning issue that makes the news, the boats. Can't get dr or hospital appt, immigration (illegal and legal is in the same pot) is a subject that is high in the general man on the streets mind.
Mainstream parties must take note of what the general public care about to prevent extreme parties gaining a foothold.

The view from my son and his University friends based on what is happening in the political societies there is that both Tory and Labour are done. The future is either Reform or Jeremy Corbin’s new party and that there is no middle.
Both options quite frankly appall me (as do both Tory and Labour currently) and I’ve absolutely no idea who I would vote for at the next election!

But could anyone seriously vote corbin? Farage I understand because he knows what emotions to target, (i don't support him) but corbin is surely not a serious contender? (I misspell his name and no capitals deliberately)