To be worried about the dark political direction of this country

[Krenonges]

Has anyone else seen the video doing the rounds of Farage being properly grilled in Congress? Honestly, it was the first time I’ve ever seen him held to account, unlike here, where the UK media give him endless airtime and barely challenge him.

They raised his 17 appearances on Russian state TV and his open admiration for Putin. Shocking, but not exactly surprising. Apparently he’s over in the US slagging off the UK, trying to cosy up to Trump, and giving speeches at far-right, anti-abortion events. Is this genuinely what he’s about now?

What I can’t wrap my head around is how he continues to poll so highly. Time and again he seems to act in ways that are completely at odds with the UK’s best interests, yet his supporters see him as some kind of saviour who’ll “stop the boats”. The irony being, of course, that the small boat crisis is a direct consequence of Brexit – the very thing he spent years pushing.

I know politics is never squeaky clean, but this feels different. It feels like there are darker, more insidious forces backing him, with the aim of undermining and dismantling the country bit by bit. It’s frightening to think how many people are still buying into the image he’s carefully crafted for himself, when the reality seems so much murkier.

All I ever hear from Reform voters when I challenge them is 'Yes, but Labour are crap' or 'You're just a leftie'. I'm not that left wing or even a Labour supporter, and i know Labour arent doing a good job right now. I just can't understand why people think Reform is the best alternative when Farage is clearly going to pimp the country out to his rich backers. The 'stop the boats' immigration debate is just the red herring, dog whistle policy that will get him votes.

That's not how digital id is going to work. Everything is going to be tied to it. Banking, health, browsing history, the lot. It's not the digital equivalent of a proof you're 18 card.

How would Corbyn improve the NHS? There is no money for that, that is what Labour is struggling with as we speak.

NF hasn't said he wants to dismantle the NHS, he's rather vaguely suggested a European model. I have doubts about his ability to accomplish that, but many many people who value health care access think that is the right approach. It's not like people in France or Germany are living in a health care free for all.

Oh dear
Corbyn would tax more. Not my choice but that political leaning
You need to research farage more. He says different things to different audiences... and like trump if elected he would implement the most right leaning he could do...

That might be the case but overall 55% of children born in England in 2023 were White British. By 2056 white British will be a minority.
Every election for the last 15 years people have voted democratically for slower and lower immigration but it has accelerated since Blair whoever was voted in to Parliament.

Net migration has gone down this year https://blog.ons.gov.uk/2025/05/22/taking-a-look-at-what-is-driving-the-fall-in-net-migration/

The dumb thing for me is alot of the people who support reform are ex labour voters who are now voting for the worst of the tories. They are supercharged tories who have literally spelt out policies that are most damaging to the poorer echelons of this country and they are willingly lining up like lemmings because the wolf is now dressed as the pied piper.

To an extent, but not in as direct a way. Because while there was stagnation, cheaper goods and services have compensated for that to some degree. Their jobs haven't been as directly impacted, and they also benefited more from the ability to move to other countries to work. And after 2008 low interest rates also benefited them, especially if they own a home.

Quite recently, especially since covid that has changed, they are seeing their bottom line affected, and they are also seeing their parents and kids affected by poor schools and medical care.

That's part of the reason there ar so many people defecting from Labour, the more precarious members of the middle classes are now started to be alienated just as the wc have been for years.

It’s a disgrace. I saw in the news that a doctor has been using the Reform conference speech to link the king’s cancer to Covid vaccine. My ds is a doctor and that would really upset him. That is absolutely not how doctors behave, unless they are dark and dodgy and out for financial gain.

Who would they tax more? The wealthy - and you don't need to be very wealthy to qualify - are already losing more than half of what they make. Some are already talking about leaving, others are cutting back on work because it doesn't improve their bottom line.

The poor? Clearly not.

The middle income working and middle classes? This is what the Nordic countries do, tax these people at a higher rate - how do you see that going over?

The mega rich are effectivly international citizens and aren't easily taxable.

As for the NHS. You need to understand that the kind of system the UK isn't the only effective health care system. It's not a choice between that and a US style system.

Telling people that there is only one way isn't effective because they can see there are other options. When those on the left are refusing to talk about those options and pretending they don't exist it makes people distrust them.

Mumsnet is such an echo chamber though…

CATomas · Today 20:32
Scapegoating is critical to fascism.

It’s also critical to the left. For example, anyone who is in favour of limiting immigration is instantly scapegoated and called a bigot, fascist, knuckle dragger etc.

@TempestTostyou stick with your alternative health system and we’ll stick with the NHS.

The European model would be a huge improvement on the curent, and for last 30 years, shambles that is the NHS. The trouble is, the NHS has become an ideology of its own, almost sacrosanct, and those that have suffered have been the patients and and the taxpayers.

This is such a lot of unevidenced nonsense. Where do you get this stuff? (Saw it on the internet?) What on earth does "has allegiances elsewhere" even mean?

But we have a media machine (largely owned by non-dom non UK tax paying ultra-rich) who are amplifying and stirring up this "it's the boats, it's the illegals" narrative. What % of immigration is (so-called) "illegal? How many small boat arrivals this last week? Year on year comparison? What rate of asylum applications compared with France, Greece, Germany, Italy? Who's choosing the headlines and platforming Farage and Dubai-resident Tice? The "burning issue" (unfortunate choice of words!) didn't become so all by itself.

40% of the country voted for him in 2017.

"Any promised solution is worth a try."

🙄

I'm personally getting a bit tired of hearing about the noble British public just wanting a fair go and being screwed over by politicians who won't give them one.

We have shite public services, a failing health system, stagnating wages, a housing crisis and a cost of living crisis because people have consistently voted for parties with policies that made those outcomes inevitable - from the sell-off of council housing under Thatcher to austerity under Cameron to Brexit under Johnson, punctuated by "Labour" governments under Blair and Starmer who could only get elected once they convinced the public they had divested themselves of any remotely ambitious intentions to properly restructure the economy in favour of working people. And because of massively increasing inequality and concentration of asset ownership, that people are too stupid to see right in front of their faces because it isn't in the Sun and it's easier to blame brown people.

Politicians don't tell us the truth - that we're experiencing the death throes of hyper-globalised capitalism and related climate meltdown that cannot possibly be addressed while maintaining our addiction to growth - because they know damn well there's no way on Earth they'll be elected if they do. The truth is that we as a whole need to get either poorer or burn, and that means either the rich need to get a LOT less rich, or the poor need to actually starve.

The economic illiteracy surrounding the immigration debate is incredibly frustrating to those with an ounce of critical thinking ability. What is certain is that falling living standards for the majority and rising inequality are rooted in factors much deeper and more varied than just immigration. So even if stopping the boats does benefit the economy (and I don't believe it will), it won't be by much. And while we have a government in charge that is dedicated to facilitating neoliberalism in service to the 1% - whether Labour, Conservative or Reform - you can be certain that any such benefit won't be felt by ordinary people anyway but will be syphoned upwards to the super rich as it always is.

The fact that anybody thinks multi-millionaire tax-slashing NHS selling Farage is going to change any of that is really a shining monument to human stupidity.

Yes, this is a good example of why people are leaning away from the left, they are committed to sticking with a health care model whether or not it's actually effective, because....?

Well who knows why really. Most people are happy to talk about whatever models seem to actually work.

Yes, I don't understand it.

It's not like such people will even discuss it. I'd say it's dismissed out of hand, but it's more like they pretend those systems don't exist.

What is interesting is many of those people are very big on the EU and ideas like reversing Brexit, and are happy to go work in these same European countries or send their children to university there. They know those systems are at least as effective as the NHS and don't find them too scary to use.

It's such a bizarre phenomena.

MN is overwhelmingly left-leaning. The polls are the best indicator and they paint a very different picture.

Labour have been a disaster and seem to (for reasons best known to themselves) be doing everything in their power to penalise the very working people they've always claimed to support.

Like him or loathe him, Farage is appealing to the ever-increasing number of people up and down this country, who have long felt neglected and ignored.

They don't need to rise up and take power to ruin the country and our freedoms. How come only 6% have got the police so scared of racism they turn a blind eye to grooming gangs, or a teacher in Batley is still having to live in hiding after receiving death threats for showing a picture of Mohammed years ago, or Muslims being over-represented on MI5's terror watch list?

We've had Muslims bringing their religious hatred to the streets of Leeds calling for armed resistance against Jewish schools and synagogues and Muslim medics not giving proper care to Jews in hospitals

Then there's crap like this, manipulating and influencing the government while deflecting and accusing Israel of influencing the government 🤨

In what way? I can’t really remember what it was like 10 years ago to compare, hence the question.

Embarrassing 😳.