Trying to salvage friendships after a terrible holiday

[ChaosIsMyCardo]

Hi, this is my first post. I am hoping someone can help me unpick a disastrous trip with some friends and our kids that I'm worried may have ruined friendships and I'm not quite sure what to do.

I recently went on a two night trip away in the UK with two school friends and our kids. Each of us has a four yo and one also has a baby.

One of these friends has the same day off as me so we have spent lots of time together over the last four years and our boys have had lots of fun together. They both have quite different personalities (my son is very sensitive and can be shy, whereas hers is more assertive and outgoing) so they've occasionally had their moments, but generally they have a great time together.

The other friend has a 4yo daughter (and baby boy) and we don't see each other as often and we are quite different people, but there is a trust between us that comes from knowing each other since childhood.

So, we had all booked this trip as a nice little get together before the kids start school. I knew it wasn't going to be a relaxing break but I still thought we'd have some lovely moments and the mums would have a nice catch up. I was wrong!

As soon as we all arrived in the house, things seemed very fraught and stressful. The dynamics between the kids were in constant flux with seemingly one always left out (to be expected with three, I guess), but the primary conflict seemed to be between the boy and girl of my friends. They weren't getting along and the boy would often lash out at/hit the girl. The girl would then come and tell the boy's mum, who would admonish the boy not to hit, but I could tell she was becoming increasingly frustrated with scolding him.

She is a very "gentle " parent, very in tune with his needs and his biggest advocate (as any mum ought to be), and in her view, the girl was teasing and winding her son up, which was just as bad as hitting, and she was annoyed that only her son was being told off.
I think she was annoyed with the girls mum for not being more present to referee the older kids. This mum did however also have a 9mo to take care of.

The girls mum is very upset because, from her point of view, she witnessed the boy not being very nice towards her daughter and felt unable to say anything, and she acknowledges that they are all only four and these things are to be expected. She also feels upset because the boys mum did not really engage with her speak to her for the whole trip, and they have not really spoken since.

I know this is largely between them, but I am not sure what to do as they both want to talk to me about their thoughts on this. I want to be honest and supportive with both, without betraying the other.

I haven't been able to be completely honest with the boys mum as I think she has been quite unreasonable in the defense of her son (e.g. by criticising the other child in a way she would not accept from others about her child) rather than just acknowledging they are all four and this will happen.

I don't feel able to say this to her as she is very defended around this and I don't want to hurt her or risk our friendship.. As another boy mum, I do know that sometimes boys act up in a way it's easier to scold, whereas girls can be a bit more complex/clever and perhaps "get away with" more (maybe, I dunno) I don't think she was intentionally malicious in any of this, but I do feel bad for the other friend who was essentially told her daughter is a shit stirrer and has now been ostracised by the boy mum, who is still very annoyed with her in a way that is quite irrational in my view.

Does anyone have any advice/ similar experience / insight into any of this?
Than you for reading if you got this far

Boy mum will fall out with lots of people. There will have been others and there will be more. Eventually you included.

If I was that girl's mum, I would never want to go near either of you 'boy mums' again. Excuses that justify an aggressive (or as you prefer to say assertive) kid hitting another kid.

You have very outdated views.
I abhor 'gentle parenting' techniques. It is a word used by adults who can't be arsed to parent properly.

Well I couldn’t comment without seeing the children. Hittings an easy no and if you have a hitter you have to supervise always. Saying that there’s plenty of child behaviour which whilst isn’t worse than hitting; does evoke hitting. And no I am not saying violence is acceptable but if you have two adults in a pub. One snatches something out the others hand. There’s potential for a fight there and that’s just human nature.

So I have no idea. Except everyone clearly wasn’t supervising enough.

its not normal for a four year old to routinely hit another child that is not their sibling.
the boy mum friend sounds awful.
having said that, it’s not your issue so just stay out of it and focus on your family

Fuuuucking hell. This sounds like a horrendous trip from the outset? Whose big idea was it to take all these young kids on holiday?

Why you involved! Let them sort it...not your brunch if monkeys in a circus you need to worry about...

Best to stay out of it. If pressed, shrug your shoulders and say, kids eh, what are they like. Then leave it.

It’s very sexist to imply that girls are more conniving.

Some boys, not all, may well get frustrated more easily because they acquire language a little slower and it can be frustrating not to be fully understood, especially as a 4 year old negotiating play. I expect that is the same for many girls.

It sounds like you both had predetermined expectations from the girl which may have been unfair. (Girls are less physical so were you expecting her to be a ‘nice little girl’ and let the boys walk all over her?!)

If your ‘boy mum’ friend has her nose out of joint it might be because this trip has exposed the areas where her own parenting needs to improve. (I’m a fairly gentle parent, but hitting is absolutely not acceptable)

Your poor friend with a young baby having her DD blamed for being hit by adults who should know better.

Honestly, it’s a bit alarming that you are trying to justify the bullying of a girl… because of your own sexist beliefs about how ‘girls are sneaky’ or whatever bizarre slant you’re going for.

Just be grateful that it isn't you with the badly behaved child who spoils nice trips and that you aren't a rubbish 'gentle' non parent.

You need to keep out of it.

I can see you have an opinion on it but it will do you no favours to take sides.

If I was you I’d encourage them to talk to each other as only they can resolve things not you

Please take the others advice and stay out of it. On a personal level, I'd consider the dynamics of your son's friendship with this boy and ensure any further play is well supervised.

Also sometimes I feel sad that, as a SEND parent, no one wants to holiday with us, and we will never have weekends away with friends. (We have nice holidays as a 3 though). So thank you all for reminding me how shit they actually are😂

This is not a real problem surely though OP. If you boil it down what is it? A couple of four year olds were acting up. How on earth have you all managed to get so twisted up on it. There must be more sitting behind it.

Simply dont get involved with childrens' disagreements and certainty not when your own isn't really involved either. Don't say anything good or bad to either mum. It's gone now anyway

Ahhhh, of course she was winding him up, and that's why he kept hitting her 🙄. Does he keep hitting those children who wallop him back too?

Why is he allowed to go around hitting other children? Multiple times?

And why was the girl's mother allowing her to to get hit multiple times and saying nothing?

Give me strength!

I would STONGLY 100% suggest you tell them both there has clearly been a misunderstanding and they should sit down and discuss together, and both potentially apologise as needed.

I would respond with this whenever they want to talk to you (rather than engage too deeply.)

This happened to me (I was like one of the friends, accused of something that was incorrect.) I wanted to talk, I apologised for anything I did that created confusion. But the other friend accused, and told me not to contact her. She refused to talk. Two years on the friendship is basically lost (as well as the group spending time together.) If only the other friend would have spoken to me and smoothed over together right away.

I hope you advise them to discuss together and resolve asap x

I disagree with many people saying ‘ just stay out of it.’

Sure stay out of it, but make sure you tell them both TO DISCUSS TOGETHER first.

I think my involvement would be to say firmly they are all 4, they need supervising. And I would definitely say to the boy mum friend that I don’t think that’s a fair way to talk about a 4yo, I think you would hit the roof if someone said that about your child, so please consider that. And that I think it’s really important girls get brought up able to speak up to boys from an early age, and she should think about how young men grow up when at the age of 4 their mum is thinking it’s ok for them to hit girls who are annoying them. Honestly if she didn’t get a grip on the parenting I wouldn’t be able to maintain the friendship anyway, gentle parenting my arse. It’s lazy parenting that brings up entitled violent boys and maybe if you took a clearer position she’d get a grip.

Given the situation you’ve described it really doesn’t sound hard to be genuinely empathetic towards both friends, you’ve literally done it in your OP.

Honestly if that boy meets a boy like him who whacks him back what will the ‘gentle parenting’ mum do then? Blame the other parent, obviously! Good luck to her as that will happen.

Absolutely, but what you’d have done in removing your dc is parenting. This mum didn’t do any parenting, just got shitty at the other mum.

Keep out of it. I can't think of anything worse than sharing a house with others peoples children of that age🤦🤣

Not your spillage on aisle 4.

Ultimately these sorts of holidays are usually a bad idea unless you're all very chilled, happy to supervise closely, on the same page with parenting and have very laid-back easygoing kids. There is a reason why a sensible length of time for playdates is normally a couple of hours before the kids, having turned grotty, are either carted off home or parked in front of the TV to decompress.

I am probably on girl mum's side. Probably, because hitting is always wrong and, after giving a warning for the first time, my DC would have been sat out of the fun by my side until I felt they could be trusted to play again. Boy mum sounds ineffective. When she realised the holiday wasn't going to work out, it would probably have been sensible to leave then rather than prolongue the experience.

I say "probably" rather than definitely as I do remember a rather awkward moment between my DS (then 5) and a rather officious little girl of a similar age or maybe slightly older who had taken a dislike to him in the soft play of a UK holiday park we were staying in. DS was slightly boisterous to begin with and knocked into her unintentionally, and we made him apologise of course and thought no more about it. But then this little girl (rather cleverly, in hindsight) cottoned onto us being his parents and decided to tell tales to us all evening about his misdeeds 😂. So we were treated to a constant round of "Do you know he's just climbed up the slide?" and "He's taken the blocks I was going to play with" for much of the evening. I dealt with this with as much good humour as I could manage, trying to soothe her ruffled feelings and meditate between the two, until DH, who was bored of the whole thing, looked at her and said very firmly "Go back to your adult NOW. You can complain to them if you like". And she scuttled off and we heard no more about it.

I think some kids do like to wind up other kids and put them in the wrong, and often they don't even realise they're doing it, they just feel aggrieved. So it's possible the DD was a bit like this, but from what you're saying, sounds more like boy mum was in the wrong.

My thoughts too