Ex partner handing care of our daughter over to her mother and I'm not happy about it.

[Neil90]

I apologise that this is long but I'm a dad in need of some advice from anyone who's been through similar or knows how it works.

I have an 8 year old daughter with my ex partner, we share custody 50/50 this was mutually agreed 7 years ago when we split.

Fine relationship we get along fine and never usually have any disagreements about our daughter

Last week ex decided to start doing overnight care work so she stays in the client's home all night with them and due to this has decided to give our daughter to her mother to care for whilst its her time, I've told her im not happy with this and that if she is not able to or does not wish to care for our daughter then she is to come to me full time, her mother is a nice lady but chain smokes in her flat, its a tiny one bedroom cluttered flat in a rough area and im not happy with my daughter living there 50% of the time.

The main issues I've pointed out to ex are

I'm not happy with her being stuck in a small flat with someone who chain smokes, there are health problems linked to excessive second hand smoke.

The condition of the flat, its messy and cluttered and generally not in great condition.

Daughter does not have a bedroom in the flat, she's sleeping on the sofa whilst keeping her clothes in a duffle bag, i seen my daughter yesterday and she stinks of smoke.

There is some young lads who have a flat on her street, little thugs who are in all sorts of trouble but the real issue is that they have two big alligators that run loose on the street with no control whatsoever, I'm sick with the thought of one of them getting my daughter because she wouldn't stand a chance against them.

I'm also just not happy that she's going to be raised by a grandparent half the time whilst she has a loving family here that can take care of her.

I'm married with a step child who is 9, my daughter gets on great with her step mum and step sister so no problems in that area, she has a lovely room here all to herself and a garden full of toys etc, she's able to ride her bike and be a child whilst here but when she's with her grandma she's stuck in a tiny one bed flat and can't go outside due to rough people on the street and the dogs.

My ex is refusing to let me have our daughter full time as she feels like she won't be a parent if I have her all the time, I'm more than happy for her to see daughter whenever she wishes with absolutely no restrictions, she's welcome in my home, welcome to take daughter whenever she likes and call whenever she likes, have her when she's off work and holidays but she's standing firm and refusing this.

We've never been to court over daughter before as we've always had a fine relationship and put her first but im thinking court will be my only option. Does anyone with experience of this know how it would go? Is it likely to go in my favour?

I'm worried because I have autism, high functioning autism but a good lawyer could easily make me fold under pressure in court, i own my own home and business, im a good dad and husband and my daughter has never came in to danger or anything like that in my care but a lawyer would have nothing else to use against me apart form my autism and I would 100% get overwhelmed in court under the pressure.

@Myjobisridiculous Depends upon why child is being put with grandma. If for mum to go and spend time with a shag, definitely. If so mum can go out to work to pay the rent because evening hours pay more so she can cover it, reasonable.

Firstly you need to apply for mediation, you can’t go to court without it.
Once that’s done, if she doesn’t go to mediation or still refuses, you will get a MIAM certificate which is what you need to apply to court.

You need a c100 form. It costs about £260ish to apply.

I can’t see why they wouldn’t make you primary parent since the mother has decided that she doesn’t want to parent anymore.

Make sure you keep all messages/emails etc that state she’s not having your child. ONLY communicate via written form, you have proof then. Also be aware that she may make false allegations against you, I’ve seen it happen all too many times and from people that I’d have never thought would do it, family court can make people do stupid things.

Always stay child focused, although I believe you are and have been this entire thread. You clearly only want what’s best for your child.

You don’t necessarily need legal representation, this will cost THOUSANDS, you can do it all yourself. There is a brilliant group on FB called FREE Family Law Child Arrangements Order advice (UK) and it’s run by a group of McKenzie friends (they can advise and help but can’t speak for you in court) and I’ve had wonderful free advice in my fight for my granddaughter and I won, I did it all myself in court and I’ve got a brain injury!

Good luck.

No. Present parents are better than absent ones.

@everychildmatters
hes already said dd will be at grandmas full time, with occasional visit to mum

It doesn't actually matter why. If the child isn't living with mum, she should be living with dad. Children with willing, able parents shouldn't be living with third parties.

Absolutely agree

@mumofoneAloneandwell Totally agree. Yet to be revealed why the finacial disparity. Sounds to me like he could be using that against her when it may be his doing in rhe first place.

@Dingdongdoo Of course. Because being able to pay her rent and bills really isn't important(!) Child always better off with a very wealthy parent than one who has to work hard to earn a living.

In the UK and other countries smoking with children in cars/ building is illegal and exposure to chain smoking houses risks respiratory diseases and COPD in later life. At the very least you should report to social services.

It is very bad for children’s health and social services might look into it, but no child is normally removed from a home because there is a smoker living there:

New research reveals 1.8 million smoking households in England with children
A new report from the Future Health Research Centre published today finds that there are an estimated 1.8 million households in England with children where someone smokes. Regionally the highest proportion of these households are in the East (8.9%) and North East of England (8.7%). By contrast London (6.3%) and the South East (6.6%) have the lowest regional rates.

I totally see your point.

Maybe you need to revisit your existing arrangements?

I can’t see how your ex would be happy with this current situation either

You sound like a loving dad trying to do your best. I think I would talk to a solicitor. If you go to court, you won’t be worse off. You agreed fifty fifty with your ex wife not your mother in law. Good luck.

Ironic that despite your name, you're only here to champion his ex, not his daughter who's living in squalor

you need to find an accredited family mediator, who can do child centered mediation as well.

basically you have an initial appointment setting out your concerns, your ex will then be invited to her own initial appointment where she can set out what she wants, you’ll then be invited to a meeting with both of you present where the mediator then facilitates a conversation (non biased) between you to work out and agree what’s best.

a child centred mediator will also be able to discuss privately with your daughter what her preferences are and these will be shared with you both.

if your ex refuses mediation, you then have the power to take her to family court. If your ex does attend mediation, hopefully you’ll be able to agree a better way forward.

its very common these days for parents to represent themselves in the family court, but I would advise you also seek out some independent advise from a family lawyer.

Of course her rent is important. But if her kid can't live with her, the kid needs to live with dad. Kipping on grandma's sofa isn't good for anyone.
Since you've edited, I will too. It's nothing to do with him being wealthy. We don't even know if he is wealthy. Children are better off with a parent than grandma's sofa. How blinkered must you be not to see that?

@Kreepture What matters to children most is spending quality time with both parents. Not separated from mum because she is less well-off than dad.

@Digdongdoo So what if granny stays at the flat so mum can go out to work? Sounds like a reasonable compromise.

"It is very bad for children’s health and social services might look into it, but no child is normally removed from a home because there is a smoker living there"

If someone with PR objects there could be a very good chance they will be. If it was the child's mum smoking I would agree with you that no action taken.

In this case the dad is putting their daughter first while the mum is putting her child's health and wellbeing in jeopardy. She doesn't even have a proper bed ( again not unusual in UK sadly) nor her own room.

The sexism and double standards on this thread is appalling. Imagine if this was a mum talking about her ex partner doing this! Of course it's completely unacceptable for a young girl to be sleeping on a sofa and stinking of smoke, she needs to be removed from that environment. Please pursue this legally, she can't carry on like that.

That does sound like a reasonable compromise. But it's not up to me.

IMO you're on a hiding to nothing.

Like it or not, the facts are

• it's legal to smoke around a child therefore courts won't rule against that

• no matter how often they stay there, its under the child's mother's directive I.e. she is still using her parental rights on her time to make that choice.

It doesn't really matter that you can provide better. Legally, your ex is providing a legal level of care.

"What matters to children most is spending quality time with both parents"

Which is not happening here because the mum has abrogated her child care responsibilities to the grandmother and is now only making occasional visits.

The poor woman, honestly 😢

Coming on mumsnet for advice is one thing but this feels very

'I like to shame my ex to any woman i meet'

@Walkden Maybe mum has no choice? Perhaps it's a case of work evenings or be homeless?

I think you’d have a case to argue that your daughter goes to you while her mum is working. Her grandma’s doesn’t sound suitable for her. She doesn’t even have her own room. It won’t look good in court, for her mum that she’d rather send her to an unsuitable flat than send her to her other parent. I’d get advice from a solicitor