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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not see the appeal of Reform

421 replies

Reallyneedsaholiday · 01/09/2025 15:57

Sure, I can see the appeal of “reform” (with a lower case “r”), noone is under any illusion that the country is in a great way, at the moment, but not the appeal of the Reform political party. And I genuinely want to understand what it is that has so many people in thrall to them. All I’m hearing is “sToP tHE bOAtS”, but Reform will not do this, no matter what they are saying now. Simply returning anyone who arrives here on a boat, without following due process and considering their application, would see the country subjected to international sanctions, that we cannot afford. The only viable way to actually stop the boats, is to address why people are using them in the first place. WE have decreed that no one can apply from anywhere other than on our soil, and so have left them with little choice. France offered the opportunity to have a centre in Calais, Rwanda would have also worked, as a base where asylum seekers could apply without risking their lives on the channel. Those who are successful could be brought here safely, and anyone using unauthorised routes, could THEN be legally removed without appeal. It’s not a difficult solution, so you have to ask yourself “why” politicians turned down the opportunity. The only logical reason for this, is that they WANT the boats to continue. Again, you have to ask yourself “why”, and the reason for THAT is simply that they want the distraction, they need the scapegoat.
We’ve all seen the headlines, claiming that asylum seekers are living in the lap of luxury, with free phones etc, which is simply not true. Asylum seekers actually cost the country less than we lose through tax avoidance, every year.

But if we put immigration aside, as the distraction that it is, what appeals about Reform? I’ve asked many people and really struggle to find any Reform supporter who can even tell me what any of their policies are. Why are they so keen to sign away our human rights, leaving us to the whim of successive governments? Why are they so keen to introduce a private health care system (good luck getting any cover if your have any pre-existing medical conditions in your family)? Why are they so keen to introduce fracking? Or to scrap “net zero”? Tbh, I’m not completely sold on “net zero” myself, but overall, being more environmentally friendly strikes me as a positive move. Less pollution, less plastics, cleaner water, cheaper, safer energy etc, etc. you could scrap the title “net zero”, while keeping the important bits that would generally improve our quality of life, without throwing what we have achieved, to date, away.

I could go on, but I’d just like to ask anyone who is thinking of voting Reform, at the next opportunity, why? And how you see your own life improving IF they won a GE?

OP posts:
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ButterfliesAtChristmas · 02/09/2025 17:57

MistressoftheDarkSide · 02/09/2025 17:51

Interesting thread.

People who are in favour of Farage / Reform tend to ignore the US based company he keeps. He's not just Trump's buddy, he's hung out with Christian nationalists whose goal is to abolish abortion, and has mentioned that a chat about reducing time limits might be a good thing. That kind of gets swept aside yet could have real impacts if they get into power.

What I've seen today that I find alarming in the current climate is Ms Cooper saying that asylum seekers could be housed in industrial warehouses, and how much she loves a good flag. I can't put my finger on why it disturbs me so much... .

Tbh, I think Cooper was making a tongue in cheek comment with the flags thing - she's sick of being asked about them. But If Labour were to order all flags to be removed immediately, can you imagine the backlash. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. This, on the back of halting the family reunification programme and the consideration of modular housing for asylum seekers is an attempt to show they're doing something. I don't think either announcements are bad tbh. What makes you uncomfortable?

EasternStandard · 02/09/2025 18:08

ButterfliesAtChristmas · 02/09/2025 17:57

Tbh, I think Cooper was making a tongue in cheek comment with the flags thing - she's sick of being asked about them. But If Labour were to order all flags to be removed immediately, can you imagine the backlash. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. This, on the back of halting the family reunification programme and the consideration of modular housing for asylum seekers is an attempt to show they're doing something. I don't think either announcements are bad tbh. What makes you uncomfortable?

You’d prefer it if women and children didn’t get asylum? Thats the upshot of the family part.

All this stuff about Reform and they’re wagging the dog for Labour on this. Cooper from ‘refugees welcome’ to this is down to panicking about Reform.

EasternStandard · 02/09/2025 18:10

BurntBroccoli · 02/09/2025 17:39

Seems The Green Party have voted in a new leader. Looks promising and at least he has charisma!

Just had a run through of Green Party policies and really what’s not to like. Corbyn has wished him well too; that is a coalition I would be behind.

The Green Party’s policies are built around four core values: environmental sustainability, social justice, grassroots democracy, and peace. Their platform emphasises a rapid transition to a low-carbon society, a fairer economy, and a stronger commitment to human rights and international cooperation.

On the environment, the Greens push for urgent climate action to achieve net-zero emissions, typically by 2030 - 2040. They call for an end to new fossil fuel projects, alongside the rapid phase-out of existing oil, coal, and gas industries. Instead, they advocate large-scale investment in renewable energy sources such as wind, solar, tidal, and geothermal. Their vision also includes expanding public transport networks, building safer infrastructure for walking and cycling, restoring biodiversity through rewilding projects, and embedding a circular economy to reduce waste.

Economically, the Green Party promotes a shift towards a green economy that creates jobs in renewable energy, housing retrofitting, sustainable farming, and conservation. Many branches support introducing a universal basic income to provide security for all, while also backing a shorter working week without loss of pay. They propose raising taxes on the wealthiest individuals and corporations to strengthen public services, and they strongly support trade unions and workplace democracy to give workers more control over their conditions.

In health and social care, Greens defend publicly funded systems, opposing privatisation. They stress the importance of preventative care, mental health services, and stronger community and social care links. Public health measures to reduce air and water pollution are also central to their vision, recognising the environmental roots of many illnesses.

Education policies focus on ensuring free access at all levels, from early years through to university. The Greens support ending tuition fees, reducing student debt, and expanding vocational and apprenticeship opportunities. They also advocate embedding ecological and citizenship education into the curriculum, while protecting funding for arts and cultural subjects.

On housing, the Green Party calls for a large-scale programme of affordable, energy-efficient homes, with rent controls and stronger protections for tenants. They want to retrofit existing housing stock for better insulation and energy efficiency, while encouraging community-led and cooperative housing models.

Their agricultural vision centres on supporting local, organic, and sustainable farming, while moving away from intensive factory farming. They call for reduced pesticide use, protection for biodiversity, and shorter food supply chains to support small farmers. Reducing meat and dairy consumption is also encouraged to lower environmental impacts.

Democratically, the Greens champion electoral reform, especially proportional representation, to make politics more representative. They support devolving more power to local communities, protecting civil liberties, and reforming the criminal justice system to prioritise rehabilitation over punishment.

Finally, in international affairs, the Green Party takes a strong anti-war stance, opposing nuclear weapons and arms sales while promoting diplomacy and peacebuilding. They support global climate agreements, sustainable development, and human rights, alongside increased international aid focused on justice and environmental resilience.

It’s great if they get together, they’ll get some votes to the left.

On the nuclear part do they mean we drop them whilst others keep them?

Plus any statement on NATO?

gingerelephant · 02/09/2025 18:12

I think people are disappointed in the Labour government and were disappointed with the Conservatives before that, things have got worse. The migrant issue is only one part of it, people feel silenced as they can’t express their views for grasp of being labelled as racist etc etc so Reform offers a chance to respond.

tobee · 02/09/2025 18:13

Voting in Zac Polanski today shows that The Green Party are not a serious party in this country.

ButterfliesAtChristmas · 02/09/2025 18:17

EasternStandard · 02/09/2025 18:08

You’d prefer it if women and children didn’t get asylum? Thats the upshot of the family part.

All this stuff about Reform and they’re wagging the dog for Labour on this. Cooper from ‘refugees welcome’ to this is down to panicking about Reform.

Of course Labour are panicking, hence they've put their foot on the gas. It's a temporary halt, with a longer view of changing the process to 2years for asylum seekers to be able to apply - enough time to secure a job / housing and reach the £29,000 income threshold , before they can bring family. I think that's sensible and in line with countries like Austria. I don't like much, if any, of Labour's policies but I think it's a step in the right direction.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 02/09/2025 18:20

ButterfliesAtChristmas · 02/09/2025 17:57

Tbh, I think Cooper was making a tongue in cheek comment with the flags thing - she's sick of being asked about them. But If Labour were to order all flags to be removed immediately, can you imagine the backlash. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. This, on the back of halting the family reunification programme and the consideration of modular housing for asylum seekers is an attempt to show they're doing something. I don't think either announcements are bad tbh. What makes you uncomfortable?

Well, the people behind the flag movement might think that government are endorsing it / will turn a blind eye, which might emboldened them (as if they need any encouragement). If she'd said something about flags being appropriately displayed and not disrupting things like rail travel off bridges etc , and that defacing municipal or private property would not be tolerated, it would have come across better.

BTW one of the blokes behind the Manchester flag campaign apparently was prosecuted for people smuggling in the past.

As for the relocation of asylum seekers, it starts with downgrading, and historically it might lead to restrictions on movement, and possibly some form of identification "for their own safety". I dunno, it's just got echoes of a previous time period that had some unfortunate fallout.

But what do I know, I'm just a grumpy older woman.

EasternStandard · 02/09/2025 18:23

ButterfliesAtChristmas · 02/09/2025 18:17

Of course Labour are panicking, hence they've put their foot on the gas. It's a temporary halt, with a longer view of changing the process to 2years for asylum seekers to be able to apply - enough time to secure a job / housing and reach the £29,000 income threshold , before they can bring family. I think that's sensible and in line with countries like Austria. I don't like much, if any, of Labour's policies but I think it's a step in the right direction.

Austria has a right wing gov doesn’t it? So it’s not really right wing policies that don’t appeal, as long as Labour / Starmer introduces them?

The hypocrisy is somewhat galling but I think the pp might be right it won’t get many Reform voters back, just people loyal to Labour anyway.

ButterfliesAtChristmas · 02/09/2025 18:26

MistressoftheDarkSide · 02/09/2025 18:20

Well, the people behind the flag movement might think that government are endorsing it / will turn a blind eye, which might emboldened them (as if they need any encouragement). If she'd said something about flags being appropriately displayed and not disrupting things like rail travel off bridges etc , and that defacing municipal or private property would not be tolerated, it would have come across better.

BTW one of the blokes behind the Manchester flag campaign apparently was prosecuted for people smuggling in the past.

As for the relocation of asylum seekers, it starts with downgrading, and historically it might lead to restrictions on movement, and possibly some form of identification "for their own safety". I dunno, it's just got echoes of a previous time period that had some unfortunate fallout.

But what do I know, I'm just a grumpy older woman.

I don't know, I appreciate your point, but we can get bogged down in the ' right' language to convey messages. I just think she gave a glib response, as if the flags were an irrelevance and couldn't be arsed to get into it. I can also see the digital i.d thing looming sooner rather than later. I object to that entirely.

ButterfliesAtChristmas · 02/09/2025 18:29

EasternStandard · 02/09/2025 18:23

Austria has a right wing gov doesn’t it? So it’s not really right wing policies that don’t appeal, as long as Labour / Starmer introduces them?

The hypocrisy is somewhat galling but I think the pp might be right it won’t get many Reform voters back, just people loyal to Labour anyway.

Ummm, you're preaching to the converted here! I won't be voting Labour again, but if they come up with some good ideas in the interim I'll take note.

Menopausalsourpuss · 02/09/2025 18:31

nicpic71 · 02/09/2025 13:17

think back to 2000, I think life was really pretty good back then esp for younfg families, sure start, child trust fund, working tax credits, etc etc. Now I am sure you willa rgue that Labour caused the banking crisis but anyone with a brain knows it is not true. Might be hard for youndg parents in their 30's to appreciate as they would have been children back then but iI am in my 50's and I can tell you as new mym in 2005 and 2007, life was so much better and felt very hopeful.

Yes I'm around the same age. Like it or not Labour benefited from the Tories good economic management of 18 years and then proceeded to waste all the money, not invest in infrastructure or housing and open the floodgates of immigration without being careful who they let in. Immigration was no never mentioned in the 80s and 90s when it was 50k net per annum, it only became a problem under Blair at 300k pa then the Tories at nearly a million per annum. Both of them signed up to the insane net zero which has left the country colder and poorer while still consuming loads of tat shipped from Xhina (very environmental I'm sure) which we could make ourselves to a higher quality if we didn't have the highest energy costs in the world. And wasted almost a trillion (yes you read that right) on lockdowns. I'm hoping we've seen the last of both these clueless incompetent parties.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 02/09/2025 18:33

ButterfliesAtChristmas · 02/09/2025 18:26

I don't know, I appreciate your point, but we can get bogged down in the ' right' language to convey messages. I just think she gave a glib response, as if the flags were an irrelevance and couldn't be arsed to get into it. I can also see the digital i.d thing looming sooner rather than later. I object to that entirely.

Fair enough, I get your point too.

I think it does show a bit of a loosening of grip, probably tinged with exasperation. Somewhat ill advised in my opinion. We'll see.

TheBeaTgoeson1 · 02/09/2025 18:38

cestlavielife · 01/09/2025 19:58

They sell a simple dream to people who really want to believe it, it is that simple.
That is all.
They are good at selling their story.

This is well said. Nigel F also sold the Brexit dream in a similar way.

TeenagersAngst · 02/09/2025 21:20

BurntBroccoli · 02/09/2025 17:39

Seems The Green Party have voted in a new leader. Looks promising and at least he has charisma!

Just had a run through of Green Party policies and really what’s not to like. Corbyn has wished him well too; that is a coalition I would be behind.

The Green Party’s policies are built around four core values: environmental sustainability, social justice, grassroots democracy, and peace. Their platform emphasises a rapid transition to a low-carbon society, a fairer economy, and a stronger commitment to human rights and international cooperation.

On the environment, the Greens push for urgent climate action to achieve net-zero emissions, typically by 2030 - 2040. They call for an end to new fossil fuel projects, alongside the rapid phase-out of existing oil, coal, and gas industries. Instead, they advocate large-scale investment in renewable energy sources such as wind, solar, tidal, and geothermal. Their vision also includes expanding public transport networks, building safer infrastructure for walking and cycling, restoring biodiversity through rewilding projects, and embedding a circular economy to reduce waste.

Economically, the Green Party promotes a shift towards a green economy that creates jobs in renewable energy, housing retrofitting, sustainable farming, and conservation. Many branches support introducing a universal basic income to provide security for all, while also backing a shorter working week without loss of pay. They propose raising taxes on the wealthiest individuals and corporations to strengthen public services, and they strongly support trade unions and workplace democracy to give workers more control over their conditions.

In health and social care, Greens defend publicly funded systems, opposing privatisation. They stress the importance of preventative care, mental health services, and stronger community and social care links. Public health measures to reduce air and water pollution are also central to their vision, recognising the environmental roots of many illnesses.

Education policies focus on ensuring free access at all levels, from early years through to university. The Greens support ending tuition fees, reducing student debt, and expanding vocational and apprenticeship opportunities. They also advocate embedding ecological and citizenship education into the curriculum, while protecting funding for arts and cultural subjects.

On housing, the Green Party calls for a large-scale programme of affordable, energy-efficient homes, with rent controls and stronger protections for tenants. They want to retrofit existing housing stock for better insulation and energy efficiency, while encouraging community-led and cooperative housing models.

Their agricultural vision centres on supporting local, organic, and sustainable farming, while moving away from intensive factory farming. They call for reduced pesticide use, protection for biodiversity, and shorter food supply chains to support small farmers. Reducing meat and dairy consumption is also encouraged to lower environmental impacts.

Democratically, the Greens champion electoral reform, especially proportional representation, to make politics more representative. They support devolving more power to local communities, protecting civil liberties, and reforming the criminal justice system to prioritise rehabilitation over punishment.

Finally, in international affairs, the Green Party takes a strong anti-war stance, opposing nuclear weapons and arms sales while promoting diplomacy and peacebuilding. They support global climate agreements, sustainable development, and human rights, alongside increased international aid focused on justice and environmental resilience.

Since this will cost billions, presumably the Greens will need to redistribute all the wealth to pay for it. My question therefore, is what economic model will they adopt once they’ve spent everyone else’s money to continue funding a basic income and shorter working weeks?

Namitynamename · 02/09/2025 23:24

TeenagersAngst · 02/09/2025 21:20

Since this will cost billions, presumably the Greens will need to redistribute all the wealth to pay for it. My question therefore, is what economic model will they adopt once they’ve spent everyone else’s money to continue funding a basic income and shorter working weeks?

In fairness getting rid of nuclear weapons would save a lot of money. So opposing nuclear weapons and being anti war aren't incompatible with spending more of foreign aid/soft diplomacy etc.

The downside is of course we might regret giving up nuclear weapons. But it is ironic we spent billions on wars in Iraq/Afghanistan/Libya in the past 20 years, which resulted in increased migration to the UK which then leads to more spending (far far less than the billions destabilising those countries) which people are angry about. Not bombing the middle east and even spending money to support people in their own countries (where appropriate) would ironically have been the most cost effective way of reducing the immigration which is making people mad.

That sad, I am cynical about how realistic it is to make much headwind in preventing nuclear proliferation (at home or abroad) in the current climate. The winds are sort of blowing the other way. But the maths isn't the problem.

Reallyneedsaholiday · 03/09/2025 01:00

TeenagersAngst · 02/09/2025 13:51

Reform are talking about much more than immigration but most on Mumsnet either don't know or don't care. They just assume Reform are a one-trick pony and enjoy slagging them off for that.

Yesterday, Richard Tice announced plans to review council pension plans which are underperforming and costing a fortune in management fees due to councils not negotiating astutely enough. He reckons many millions could be saved by reviewing the current set up - and this could come off people's council tax bills.

I can well believe that the average council bod who just turns up and does a day's work, doesn't really care that much about getting best value for money. I've worked in local government and the incompetence and money wastage is eye watering. My friend was a councillor for many years and tried to get a speed bump installed on behalf of a group of constituents and it cost £150,000 because of red tape and procurement rules - for one speed bump.

Council pensions aren't sexy and many people don't understand pensions so don't engage with any media reporting on the subject. But ideas like this are new and refreshing so I'm pleased they are turning their attention to inefficiencies in public spending and looking for solutions rather than the endless rounds of tax rises from Labour.

Thank you.

OP posts:
Reallyneedsaholiday · 03/09/2025 07:29

Thanks everyone for your viewpoints. What I’ve learned from this (policy wise) is firstly that Reform want to look at council pension schemes. I’m not saying that it would be a bad thing, but is it really worth the trade off? And secondly, that the vast majority of those on this thread who would vote for Reform, actually don’t know any of their policies, or how their lives would be improved if Reform happened to win the next GE.

OP posts:
EasternStandard · 03/09/2025 07:49

Reallyneedsaholiday · 03/09/2025 07:29

Thanks everyone for your viewpoints. What I’ve learned from this (policy wise) is firstly that Reform want to look at council pension schemes. I’m not saying that it would be a bad thing, but is it really worth the trade off? And secondly, that the vast majority of those on this thread who would vote for Reform, actually don’t know any of their policies, or how their lives would be improved if Reform happened to win the next GE.

Not sure about that. It’s mn after all and these threads are typically insult laden.

It’s a much as people believed Labour would improve things, although given the approval rating that seems to be near bottom.

Reallyneedsaholiday · 03/09/2025 20:25

EasternStandard · 03/09/2025 07:49

Not sure about that. It’s mn after all and these threads are typically insult laden.

It’s a much as people believed Labour would improve things, although given the approval rating that seems to be near bottom.

Not sure about what?

OP posts:
EasternStandard · 03/09/2025 21:02

Reallyneedsaholiday · 03/09/2025 20:25

Not sure about what?

Your last sentence in your post.

TimeFlysWhenYoureHavingRum · 03/09/2025 22:18

Yanbu. They don't offer anything different. They are almost entirely made up of former Tory members (including Farage) who were either kicked out for misconduct or too incompetent *a low bar) to progress professionally so went on the grift somewhere else. Voting for them as some kind of "protest" is utterly ridiculous.

jetlag92 · 03/09/2025 22:19

I can't see the appeal of any political party at the moment.

Bulldogdays · 04/09/2025 05:42

jetlag92 · 03/09/2025 22:19

I can't see the appeal of any political party at the moment.

Exactly... usually I vote green ..but after they got involved in the Edinburgh rape Crisis centre, giving their opinion..and and recent developments...not a chance am I voting for them ever again.
I am politically homeless..none of them get my vote
If labour had a better stronger leader able to tackle current issues,that would be a good start

Bulldogdays · 04/09/2025 05:44

Reallyneedsaholiday · 03/09/2025 07:29

Thanks everyone for your viewpoints. What I’ve learned from this (policy wise) is firstly that Reform want to look at council pension schemes. I’m not saying that it would be a bad thing, but is it really worth the trade off? And secondly, that the vast majority of those on this thread who would vote for Reform, actually don’t know any of their policies, or how their lives would be improved if Reform happened to win the next GE.

Also ,at this point ..I think things are so bad ,no political party can improve things ..I think we are just looking for one who is not going to actively make things worse than they are

Timelineuk · 04/09/2025 05:50

jetlag92 · 03/09/2025 22:19

I can't see the appeal of any political party at the moment.

I know. People are falling for the American thing. Things were so bad under Biden and the democrats needed to get their house in order but didn’t so they voted Trump! Some voted on the price of food! It’s like voting for which one they think will be better or worse! And millions didn’t even bother voting. none are even remotely appealing in the UK