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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not see the appeal of Reform

421 replies

Reallyneedsaholiday · 01/09/2025 15:57

Sure, I can see the appeal of “reform” (with a lower case “r”), noone is under any illusion that the country is in a great way, at the moment, but not the appeal of the Reform political party. And I genuinely want to understand what it is that has so many people in thrall to them. All I’m hearing is “sToP tHE bOAtS”, but Reform will not do this, no matter what they are saying now. Simply returning anyone who arrives here on a boat, without following due process and considering their application, would see the country subjected to international sanctions, that we cannot afford. The only viable way to actually stop the boats, is to address why people are using them in the first place. WE have decreed that no one can apply from anywhere other than on our soil, and so have left them with little choice. France offered the opportunity to have a centre in Calais, Rwanda would have also worked, as a base where asylum seekers could apply without risking their lives on the channel. Those who are successful could be brought here safely, and anyone using unauthorised routes, could THEN be legally removed without appeal. It’s not a difficult solution, so you have to ask yourself “why” politicians turned down the opportunity. The only logical reason for this, is that they WANT the boats to continue. Again, you have to ask yourself “why”, and the reason for THAT is simply that they want the distraction, they need the scapegoat.
We’ve all seen the headlines, claiming that asylum seekers are living in the lap of luxury, with free phones etc, which is simply not true. Asylum seekers actually cost the country less than we lose through tax avoidance, every year.

But if we put immigration aside, as the distraction that it is, what appeals about Reform? I’ve asked many people and really struggle to find any Reform supporter who can even tell me what any of their policies are. Why are they so keen to sign away our human rights, leaving us to the whim of successive governments? Why are they so keen to introduce a private health care system (good luck getting any cover if your have any pre-existing medical conditions in your family)? Why are they so keen to introduce fracking? Or to scrap “net zero”? Tbh, I’m not completely sold on “net zero” myself, but overall, being more environmentally friendly strikes me as a positive move. Less pollution, less plastics, cleaner water, cheaper, safer energy etc, etc. you could scrap the title “net zero”, while keeping the important bits that would generally improve our quality of life, without throwing what we have achieved, to date, away.

I could go on, but I’d just like to ask anyone who is thinking of voting Reform, at the next opportunity, why? And how you see your own life improving IF they won a GE?

OP posts:
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Reallyneedsaholiday · 08/09/2025 08:48

GingerPower · 08/09/2025 00:41

Smug virtue signalling lefties that moan about 'gammons' but won't dare speak a word against misogynistic middle eastern cultures was a recurring theme. The more pissy the left get the more the Reform bunch know they're winning. You're playing right into their hands.

Edited

Why? Because they don’t like being asked about how they think their lives would be improved?

OP posts:
Dangermoos · 08/09/2025 08:49

Labour are imploding and Farage is waiting in the wings. He will get my vote - again.

AlertLimeZebra · 08/09/2025 09:10

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

IwasatClaines · 08/09/2025 09:18

GingerPower · 08/09/2025 00:41

Smug virtue signalling lefties that moan about 'gammons' but won't dare speak a word against misogynistic middle eastern cultures was a recurring theme. The more pissy the left get the more the Reform bunch know they're winning. You're playing right into their hands.

Edited

I think it’s because we see men from every culture becoming more misogynistic , as opposed to mainly Middle Eastern men.

That was the whole point of the Adolescence docudrama on Netflix recently. Andrew Tate inspired misogyny is a real thing in the West and it’s radicalising younger Western men especially. My younger male co worker (who doesn’t like Muslims) tells me that domestic violence occurs because of feminism.

And look at Trump, convicted for sexual assault but still voted to become president!

The point is that most of us would agree on is that we can still take each man as we find him and judge him individually on own merits, even though as a collective whole they are way more violent and prone to crime than women are.

We had a grooming scandal in Australia too but it was Catholic priests involved over many years. Even the former archbishop himself was tainted, so endemic it was.

The common denominator? They are all men.

By restricting the focus to immigration, the main problem is barely being addressed at all. I asked ChatGPT what percentage of the UK population adult male Muslims represent and it estimated 2%.

EasternStandard · 08/09/2025 09:31

Reallyneedsaholiday · 08/09/2025 08:48

Why? Because they don’t like being asked about how they think their lives would be improved?

They probably won’t bother to answer posters who deride at the same time. Fair enough if not.

Dangermoos · 08/09/2025 09:47

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

I really don't think the sneery left are in any position to display moral superiority.

EasternStandard · 08/09/2025 10:06

Dangermoos · 08/09/2025 09:47

I really don't think the sneery left are in any position to display moral superiority.

Yep look on here.

Alexandra2001 · 08/09/2025 10:20

KhakiTiger · 07/09/2025 01:04

And what did you vote for when you voted for this bunch of idiots that are the Labour Party? Are you getting what you voted for. If the answer to that is yes, then that’s scary. If it’s no, then it should teach you a lesson.

Fair point & one many will agree with.

All comes down to if you believe uk probs can be sorted in a year or so.

Takes 3 years to get a degree to nurse or teach, how can health or education be fixed in a year?
Planning and housing? takes years for new builds but Labour have doubled council house building already.

Migration? legal is now less than half what it was, x channel is mostly down to Brexit, as pointed out today.

Migrants refused asylum in EU, come here because they know we have no idea of their asylum status, no more have access to Schengen databases.

Pro brexit supporters will poo hoo this... 3,2,1...go!!!

Farage says what people want to hear, on substance, he doesn't yet have any.

Barbadossunset · 08/09/2025 12:19

Migrants refused asylum in EU, come here because they know we have no idea of their asylum status, no more have access to Schengen databases.

As migrants destroy their identification how would having access to Schengen databases help?

Viviennemary · 08/09/2025 12:37

Nobody arriving in a small boat should be allowed to claim asylum. They've broken the law and should get a criminal record and be ineligible to ever claim asylum in this country.

Reallyneedsaholiday · 08/09/2025 14:52

Dangermoos · 08/09/2025 08:49

Labour are imploding and Farage is waiting in the wings. He will get my vote - again.

Why? In what way do you think your life would improve IF Reform were to be elected?

OP posts:
Reallyneedsaholiday · 08/09/2025 14:54

EasternStandard · 08/09/2025 09:31

They probably won’t bother to answer posters who deride at the same time. Fair enough if not.

The ones I've spoken to, not to mention the ones on this thread, dont answer because they simply dont "know" and frankly that scares the crap out of me.

OP posts:
Dangermoos · 08/09/2025 14:55

Reallyneedsaholiday · 08/09/2025 14:52

Why? In what way do you think your life would improve IF Reform were to be elected?

😆 🤣 😂 😹

Reallyneedsaholiday · 08/09/2025 14:56

Viviennemary · 08/09/2025 12:37

Nobody arriving in a small boat should be allowed to claim asylum. They've broken the law and should get a criminal record and be ineligible to ever claim asylum in this country.

Except that people who "arrive in a small boat", haven't actually broken any laws at all, and if we were to deport them, without processing their claim for asylum, then WE would be the ones breaking the law.

OP posts:
Dangermoos · 08/09/2025 14:56

Dangermoos · 08/09/2025 14:55

😆 🤣 😂 😹

Oh, I'm sorry OP, I didn't realise that was a serious question. Let me go and find a big sheet of paper.

Dangermoos · 08/09/2025 14:57

Reallyneedsaholiday · 08/09/2025 14:56

Except that people who "arrive in a small boat", haven't actually broken any laws at all, and if we were to deport them, without processing their claim for asylum, then WE would be the ones breaking the law.

So why do they throw their ID overboard if they've nothing to hide?

EasternStandard · 08/09/2025 14:57

Reallyneedsaholiday · 08/09/2025 14:54

The ones I've spoken to, not to mention the ones on this thread, dont answer because they simply dont "know" and frankly that scares the crap out of me.

You won’t get the answers you’re after because you’re coming at it with derision.

Reallyneedsaholiday · 08/09/2025 14:59

OonaStubbs · 07/09/2025 00:26

Politicians need to start listening to people instead of thinking they know best and expecting people to doff their caps.

I don't disagree with you, but people also need to listen to the politicians, if they are going to know what and who they are voting for.

OP posts:
amicisimma · 08/09/2025 15:02

Reallyneedsaholiday · 08/09/2025 14:56

Except that people who "arrive in a small boat", haven't actually broken any laws at all, and if we were to deport them, without processing their claim for asylum, then WE would be the ones breaking the law.

It is illegal to enter the country without the correct paperwork.

So anyone who does that has broken the law. Which shows how much respect they have for the law in the country they are entering.

Claiming asylum after arriving doesn't change the fact that they originally arrived without the correct paperwork.

Reallyneedsaholiday · 08/09/2025 15:07

Dangermoos · 08/09/2025 14:57

So why do they throw their ID overboard if they've nothing to hide?

There are several reasons why asylum seekers do not have documentation on them, on arrival. The main one, is that they never had any to start with. Then there are others who have fled with literally "nothing", homes and possessions destroyed, including documentation. Then there are those who are forced to follow orders from the gangs they pay to help them reach "safety". WE see the stories of the arduous journeys they undertake, but many of them just see a "chance" of survival, and take it. And then yes, there are a very small minority who deliberately destroy their documents, to hide their identities on arrival here for other reasons, some innocent enough (to protect family back home) and a VERY small minority for nefarious reasons, which is why it is essential that we DO take the time to thoroughly investigate and vett all who ask to stay here.

OP posts:
Reallyneedsaholiday · 08/09/2025 15:14

amicisimma · 08/09/2025 15:02

It is illegal to enter the country without the correct paperwork.

So anyone who does that has broken the law. Which shows how much respect they have for the law in the country they are entering.

Claiming asylum after arriving doesn't change the fact that they originally arrived without the correct paperwork.

No, it isn't. That's a story peddled by those who want to convince us that asylum seekers are the enemy, rather than looking at those who actually cause the problems we all face. It is not illegal to seek asylum. If someone arrives here, and either vanishes without requesting asylum, or does not leave if their application is rejected, THEN they become "illegal", but until then they are legally entitled to be here and have their claim processed. It is also worth noting that anyone who is actually here "illegally" is not legible for any benefits or to work, so are not, by definition, stealing our jobs or benefits

OP posts:
Reallyneedsaholiday · 08/09/2025 15:17

amicisimma · 08/09/2025 15:02

It is illegal to enter the country without the correct paperwork.

So anyone who does that has broken the law. Which shows how much respect they have for the law in the country they are entering.

Claiming asylum after arriving doesn't change the fact that they originally arrived without the correct paperwork.

It is also worth nothing that France offered us the opportunities to set up a processing centre in Calais, and the Conservative government refused. We could also have used Rwanda for this. IF we had done so, we WOULD be entitled to return anyone "arriving on snall boats with no documents" but as people ARE legally entitled to apply for asylum and WE are the ones refusing to allow them to apply from anywhere else, then we need to accept the consequences of pur own actions.

OP posts:
Dangermoos · 08/09/2025 15:22

OP, you may not see the appeal of Reform. This has been covered tirelessly on here. No Reform voters need justify their vote to anybody else. We all have our reasons, which we internally legitimise. No amount of ridicule or name calling or attempts to shame us, is going to change that. I am not saying that's what you've done. The political landscape has changed enough to motivate patriots to rise up. Now, whether that's because of Reform or Reform capitalising on the gathering storm of discontent. What I can tell you is that the public were never asked whether they wanted mass immigration. The results of that are only just starting to be seen.

Bulldogdays · 08/09/2025 15:26

Reallyneedsaholiday · 08/09/2025 15:17

It is also worth nothing that France offered us the opportunities to set up a processing centre in Calais, and the Conservative government refused. We could also have used Rwanda for this. IF we had done so, we WOULD be entitled to return anyone "arriving on snall boats with no documents" but as people ARE legally entitled to apply for asylum and WE are the ones refusing to allow them to apply from anywhere else, then we need to accept the consequences of pur own actions.

I did not know this
How very frustrating
Why did conservatives turn it down ,and why isn't labour suggesting it

ButterfliesAtChristmas · 08/09/2025 15:40

Reallyneedsaholiday · 08/09/2025 15:07

There are several reasons why asylum seekers do not have documentation on them, on arrival. The main one, is that they never had any to start with. Then there are others who have fled with literally "nothing", homes and possessions destroyed, including documentation. Then there are those who are forced to follow orders from the gangs they pay to help them reach "safety". WE see the stories of the arduous journeys they undertake, but many of them just see a "chance" of survival, and take it. And then yes, there are a very small minority who deliberately destroy their documents, to hide their identities on arrival here for other reasons, some innocent enough (to protect family back home) and a VERY small minority for nefarious reasons, which is why it is essential that we DO take the time to thoroughly investigate and vett all who ask to stay here.

You talk of numbers in terms of " small minorities" - where are you getting your stats from?

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