Children’s spaces

[VivaForever81]

Inspired by another thread, I’ll start by saying I do not think men have the right to use women only spaces.
I also believe that the current setup of men’s/womens/disabled toilets and changing rooms is safe for children.
In an ideal world I would prefer for anywhere that provides the use of public toilets to have to a unisex family facility with cubicles.
I don’t think that our current way of providing men’s/womens or disabled is safe for children.
I don’t think little girls out with their dad should have to go into the men’s, I don’t think it’s safe that boys once they get to 8 should go into the men’s alone and I don’t think it’s fair on those that are disabled have there facilities blocked up with parents and children.
what do others think, would you like to see a change?

No male over 8 should be in women’s spaces.

Holy moly, read the post that’s not what I’m asking!

What are you asking? You say boys out with their mothers shouldn’t have to use the male toilets, nor the disabled. Where do you think they should go? There is not enough space to start building fourth options of unisex toilets everywhere. If there’s gender neutral ones in addition, they can use those but there’s no way this can be a legal requirement for shops, malls, parks, facilities.

8 year olds are fine using facilities of their own sex.

Have you got any evidence that kids using the toilet/changing rooms with their dads is unsafe? Or that an older male child is unsafe in the men's changing room? I have never heard of any issues here honestly.

So do you or don't you think that the current set up is safe for children? Your post says that it is and isn't.

I think it's fine.

I think the OP is saying there should be dedicated unisex spaces for children and caregivers? I have no issue with such spaces but I am not convinced that the current set up of male and female facilities is actually dangerous.

I’m asking do you think it’s safe for an 8 year old boy to go into the men’s alone?
Do you think it’s safe or right for a little girl with her dad to walk past the urinals in the men’s?
Im not suggesting the boy or the little girls dad come into the women’s, im asking if you think the current setup of no dads or boys in the ladies is safe for children or do you think there needs to be a change to women’s spaces/male spaces/disabled spaces AND a new space for the children described in my op.

I think the much more important issue is improving disabled toilet facilities so they actually meet the needs of those with disabilities (and also find a way of stopping them being used by people who aren’t disabled!)

If some men are the problem how will unisex facilities make everyone else safer?

My local leisure centre has unisex only swim changing (cubicles with gaps below and above). I’d much prefer to have a single sex option.

What do you think will happen if a girl (under 8) walks past a urinal? I went with my Dad into the gents a few times when I was younger and have no memories of men waving their penises about!

Yes, there was an SA on a boy in a McDonalds toilets local to me. Years ago but it’s stuck with me.
I really don’t believe an 8 year old boy would stand a chance on his own against a full grown man in a changing room.
And just because it doesn’t happen a lot doesn’t mean that it’s not a risk. I think there should be a forth unisex space.

I wouldn't and don't send my tiny 8 year old son into the men's toilet alone. He's not a threat to anyone.

Yes, it's perfectly fine. DS goes in. I stand outside. DS comes out.

At 8 we went swimming on our own. Using the correct changing room at this age was never an issue.
Before that my dad took me into the males until about 4 (didn't grow up traumatized) then I went in the females. My dad shouting in occasionally. If I was crazy long he would ask a woman coming out to check on me.

There is a disconnect between the age where children are ok in the opposite sex facilities with a carer and the age where they can always use the facilities alone, so yes Family facilities would help bridge that gap.

If girls aren’t safe in the men’s and boys aren’t in the women’s then why would unisex be safer because surely the perpetrators that you have in mind will just be there instead?

So we need to provide:
a single sex women’s toilet, with a sanitary facility
a men’s toilet, with a urinal and a cubicle
a disabled/accessible toilet with double the room, emergency buttons and adult changing facility
a baby change facility with a loo for the adult
a unisex toilet for those unhappy with single sex facilities
and a unisex family toilet for everyone with kids out of nappies

As someone who actually provides toilets for the public to use there is pretty much no way there is the room or budget for this in anything but the very largest and most purpose built of facilities. The billion pound shopping centre, sure. But how often do we actually go there? The rest of the time we’ll be muddling along in the small to medium sized regular loos most places are just trying their best to provide and fund the upkeep for often in a VERY squeezed sector.

There’s toilets for females, toilets for males and disabled toilets. (Allowing for more space/less queing needed) There is some argument for a gender neutral space as trans people are not always comfortable in gender assigned spaces. I can’t see how child friendly loos would work. They either go in with a parent if they are too young to go in alone or when they are old enough go on independently to the correct toilet.

this 100%

You say boys out with their mothers shouldn’t have to use the male toilets, nor the disabled.

Op didn’t say that.

a unisex toilet for those unhappy with single sex facilities
and a unisex family toilet for everyone with kids out of nappies

1 unisex toilet then?

Male, female, family/ disabled

its not difficult to organise

I would never have left an 8 year old alone in man changing room or toilets. From 10, if it's a cafe or somewhere I can be at the door, fine.
When it's airports, or supermarkets, where they are really far down from the entrance, I kept my boys in the ladies with me.

If a woman has vapours because a little boy sees her entering a cubicle or washing her hands, too bad.

Most gym and shower facilities I have seen have family facilities, or are mix

as trans people are not always comfortable in gender assigned spaces.
too bad

but it's women who are not comfortable in front of men, not the other way round!

I don't think this is uncommon in venues which have been recently designed and expect (or want to attract) a lot of families. E.g. there is a brilliant parents' room in Westfield in Stratford. Child-friendly museums often have it too. Venues are often constrained by the building and space they already have, but if you were designing, say, a new supermarket or shopping centre, it wouldn't be too difficult to incorporate.

From what I've seen on these sorts of threads before, someone will bring up "my 10 year old daughter would be highly uncomfortable using a toilet knowing a 10 year old boy in the same class as her was stood outside the door".