Page 5 | Children’s spaces

Allthegoodonesareg0ne · 02/09/2025 16:45

Millytante · 02/09/2025 16:29

No. There should be adequate ‘family’ loos which cover changing, mum+boy, and dad+daughter. And a separate wheelchair access one.
A ten year old lad shouldn’t be in the Ladies’ any more than his twin sister be in the Gents’.

The menstruation thing is important as well.
I think back to days out as a girl, and pestering Ma about the san towel machines, and yammering about their mysterious function. Once I started though, it was a very different matter. I wanted silence, and secrecy.
That was well over fifty years ago, and yet it appears things have become even more grim, more furtive, for the average girl.
It angers and saddens me greatly, but nevertheless we owe these girls the kindness to accommodate their needs as far as possible.
It’s not their fault their parents brought them up to feel furtive or dirty about menstruating.
Admitting boys to their possibly bleeding or distressed midst is a flipping outrage, not least because it’s yet more foregrounding of male rights at the expense of obvious female needs.

(Another thing we might consider, though God knows who’d take the work, is to bring back toilet attendants in public loos. A very civilising influence.
I guess candidates would come from only those groups most likely to experience abuse, even assault, in the job. )

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We are talking about children who are too young to safely use gent's toilets alone. Does their safety matter less than a girls embarrassment? Really?

Are we really expecting 9/10 year old boys to a. Know that a girl in a cubicle he can't see is dealing with a period b. Make fun of a girl who for some unknown reason is obviously dealing with a period whilst accompanied by his mother?! What bathrooms are you going to?!

Ilovepastafortea · 02/09/2025 17:07

VivaForever81 · 01/09/2025 14:20

Inspired by another thread, I’ll start by saying I do not think men have the right to use women only spaces.
I also believe that the current setup of men’s/womens/disabled toilets and changing rooms is safe for children.
In an ideal world I would prefer for anywhere that provides the use of public toilets to have to a unisex family facility with cubicles.
I don’t think that our current way of providing men’s/womens or disabled is safe for children.
I don’t think little girls out with their dad should have to go into the men’s, I don’t think it’s safe that boys once they get to 8 should go into the men’s alone and I don’t think it’s fair on those that are disabled have there facilities blocked up with parents and children.
what do others think, would you like to see a change?

I'm remembering an occasion when DH took our 3 children (2 boys aged about 8, 6 & daughter aged 4) out for the day shopping for a Christmas present for me & generally to get them out of the way so that I could prepare for our expected visitors.

They needed the loo.

No problem taking the boys into the gents - but he (quite rightly) wasn't comfortable about DD going into a place where men would have their penis's out peeing in urinals. So she went into the ladies while he & the boys waited outside. Boys got bored &, as they were in a dept store near a display of Christmas decorations, they went off a short distance to look at the decorations. DH waited, and waited, ladies came & went. DH still outside the ladies loo, increasingly becoming aware that a man standing outside a ladies loo for a lengthy period of time on his own was beginning to look dodgy. So he decided to ask the next lady that came along to check on DD, of course it seemed the entire female population no longer needed the loo and no-one appeared. He considered going to ask a sales assistant to check on her, but there wasn't one nearby & he didn't want to go and look for one only for DD to emerge from the loo to find no-one waiting for her. Luckily DSs reappeared so he sent them in to find their sister who was having a great time slathering herself with the free body lotion & playing with the hand dryers. For context this was mid 1980's & hand dryers weren't common in public loos so they were a novelty to her.

DH came home swearing that he would never take the children out without a female again.

I think that 'family facilities' are the way to go as he could have taken all the children in there together.

Millytante · 02/09/2025 17:24

Allthegoodonesareg0ne · 02/09/2025 16:45

We are talking about children who are too young to safely use gent's toilets alone. Does their safety matter less than a girls embarrassment? Really?

Are we really expecting 9/10 year old boys to a. Know that a girl in a cubicle he can't see is dealing with a period b. Make fun of a girl who for some unknown reason is obviously dealing with a period whilst accompanied by his mother?! What bathrooms are you going to?!

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My apologies, I’m just on about school loos in that bit.
Think I was taking so long to put my comment together, everything I think on the general matter came out all at once.

Millytante · 02/09/2025 17:31

Allthegoodonesareg0ne · 02/09/2025 16:45

We are talking about children who are too young to safely use gent's toilets alone. Does their safety matter less than a girls embarrassment? Really?

Are we really expecting 9/10 year old boys to a. Know that a girl in a cubicle he can't see is dealing with a period b. Make fun of a girl who for some unknown reason is obviously dealing with a period whilst accompanied by his mother?! What bathrooms are you going to?!

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Point is, the girl might well feel she can’t do her thing when there is the risk of even half a boy in her vicinity. Closed door or not.
We surely know that awful self-consciousness that convinces many a young girl that everyone knows, can tell, can even smell, and all that sad nonsense.

But I did make a hash of my comment, as I said to you elsewhere, by jumbling up two or three different related responses and blurring the lot together. A masterpiece of clarity.

Allthegoodonesareg0ne · 02/09/2025 17:39

Millytante · 02/09/2025 17:31

Point is, the girl might well feel she can’t do her thing when there is the risk of even half a boy in her vicinity. Closed door or not.
We surely know that awful self-consciousness that convinces many a young girl that everyone knows, can tell, can even smell, and all that sad nonsense.

But I did make a hash of my comment, as I said to you elsewhere, by jumbling up two or three different related responses and blurring the lot together. A masterpiece of clarity.

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A girls perceived / potential embaressment doesn't trump a child's safety.

I would not be sending my young sons to public male bathroom simply because a young girl is paranoid they might smell her period - that's bonkers.

I'm all for stopping male encroachment on female spaces (and rights!) But thats not what we are talking about. A 9 year old child who happens to be male being taken to the ladies with his mum is not an erosion of the rights of women to their own spaces.

Family bathrooms would be the ideal option to please everyone but they aren't widely available.

Periods are nothing to be embarrassed of (obviously) and we should be raising kids of both sexes to understand that.

Schools, specifically secondary schools are clearly a different kettle of fish and I agree boys and girls should have separate spaces there. But then children of that age should be using their gender specific bathrooms out and about too.

Sirzy · 02/09/2025 17:52

So what age does it become an “erosion of women’s rights” then? Should women accept 10 year olds? 15 year olds? 20 year olds? Everyone?

and what about the boys right to dignity too? It’s not fair on them to be dragged into the ladies toilets as they get older either!

Allthegoodonesareg0ne · 02/09/2025 17:58

Sirzy · 02/09/2025 17:52

So what age does it become an “erosion of women’s rights” then? Should women accept 10 year olds? 15 year olds? 20 year olds? Everyone?

and what about the boys right to dignity too? It’s not fair on them to be dragged into the ladies toilets as they get older either!

You're being deliberately obtuse. You think a ten year old boy in rhe ladies where everyone has their own privacy is an an encroachment on your right to female only spaces ?!

I think the age will be different depending on the individual and the location.
A quiet local pub for a Sunday dinner might be OK for a sensible ten year old to enter alone.
An outdoor public toilet in the evening somewhere busy is different. It's also more complicated then if mum is going to one and son to the other as there is the potential that the child will be waiting alone their mum too.
By secondary age I wouldn't expect a male to need to go with his mum to the ladies - if due to some additional need they can't go to the gents alone then the disabled would be appropriate.
We generally can't determine age by looking either.
Common sense needs to be applied. If a mum has brought a young boy into the ladies then why would anyone assume to know better than her that that's the most appropriate place for her to take him?!

Millytante · 02/09/2025 21:22

Allthegoodonesareg0ne · 02/09/2025 17:39

A girls perceived / potential embaressment doesn't trump a child's safety.

I would not be sending my young sons to public male bathroom simply because a young girl is paranoid they might smell her period - that's bonkers.

I'm all for stopping male encroachment on female spaces (and rights!) But thats not what we are talking about. A 9 year old child who happens to be male being taken to the ladies with his mum is not an erosion of the rights of women to their own spaces.

Family bathrooms would be the ideal option to please everyone but they aren't widely available.

Periods are nothing to be embarrassed of (obviously) and we should be raising kids of both sexes to understand that.

Schools, specifically secondary schools are clearly a different kettle of fish and I agree boys and girls should have separate spaces there. But then children of that age should be using their gender specific bathrooms out and about too.

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In haste right now: please don’t let me be misunderstood. I really can’t think straight today.
I’m not attempting to reinforce young girl’s anxiety, but since it persists, it’s up to adults to advocate on their behalf, and make sure they have such privacy as they need. (And to strive hard to stamp out this heavy burden on a girl, since the thing itself is grim enough! )
i am utterly appalled that embarrassment, let alone actual shame about menstruation is more widespread and intense than it was back in the 1960s.
There are additional cultural reasons involved now of course, but that doesn’t explain the whole.

But I’m not a rabid man hater wanting to see young boys alone left at the mercy of wolves! I think maybe the cutoff, regarding holding mum’s hand and using the Ladies, must be under ten. Say 8/9, as a general line.

We are all on about how things could improve, no? So those ideal family cubicles/ rooms are the obvious solution for any combination of guardian and child, plus baby tables and so on.