Children’s spaces

[VivaForever81]

Inspired by another thread, I’ll start by saying I do not think men have the right to use women only spaces.
I also believe that the current setup of men’s/womens/disabled toilets and changing rooms is safe for children.
In an ideal world I would prefer for anywhere that provides the use of public toilets to have to a unisex family facility with cubicles.
I don’t think that our current way of providing men’s/womens or disabled is safe for children.
I don’t think little girls out with their dad should have to go into the men’s, I don’t think it’s safe that boys once they get to 8 should go into the men’s alone and I don’t think it’s fair on those that are disabled have there facilities blocked up with parents and children.
what do others think, would you like to see a change?

I've not read the full thread but I do agree in certain situations there are issues surrounding where children go with or without their parent of the opposite sex. My son is disabled mentally and I would need to use the family changing in the future at the swimming pool for example (he's only 5 at present).

Unfortunately, the last time I used the family changing room there was a young couple in there getting handsy with eachother in the public showers. Whilst my son wouldn't understand what was happening I certainly did and I was pretty shocked by the behaviour! No one should be exposed to that. I didn't say anything to them but did to the receptionist.

I sometimes take my DGC out (ages 5 and 8) and I can see this becoming an issue at some point. No problem with DGD 8 as she can of course come in with me. No problem currently with DGS as he is only 5. When we are out and about though, say at the park for instance, I constantly have eyes on them both ( not both at the same time all the time obviously but it is a bit like glancing in your rear view mirror frequently whilst driving). I can't imagine that when he is his sister's age I will have to let him out of my sight to go in the men's loos alone when I don't even let her out of my sight in the playground.

I see loads of boys with their mums that look older than 8 in the ladies when out and about. No one bats an eye (including me) as I assume mum has made the right call for whatever reason and they are obviously still a child with their mum. Presumably as a teenager they would rather die than be seen going to the ladies with mum so the problem solves itself at that point. Girls should go in the gents with dad until old enough to use ladies on own which I think most dads would be happy with at 8.

If the men’s aren’t safe for boys and the men’s aren’t right for dads with daughters, then it seems to me to be a problem for men to sort out.

Are they? Are they lobbying councils for better facilities or security in the men’s toilet?

I was at Legoland recently and really noticed how much busier the women’s toilets were as women were often on days out on their own with the kids - hence took their children, regardless of sex, into the toilet with them. These were largely little kids so no concerns with regards to safety or privacy but from a planning perspective it meant the queues for women’s facilities were so much longer than the men’s.

At family-oriented attractions, unisex family facilities would be welcomed I think (as an addition, not a replacement to single sex spaces).

In an ideal world I would prefer for anywhere that provides the use of public toilets to have to a unisex family facility with cubicles.

Absurd suggestion.

In our local leisure center (USA) we have men’s, women’s and family changing rooms.

The family room is a long room with a set of individual shower cubicles with locking door.

I used them all the time when DD was small because it was a more private space than using the women’s changing rooms. It was always semi full of a variety of mums dads and children of both sexes. Felt totally safe as a gender neutral space.

If money and space were no object in an ideal world then yes, having a family option alongside the current ones would be a good facility to have.

As all the toilets in a women’s facility are within individual enclosed cubicles what is the issue with a man taking a girl into the building and then waiting outside the cubicle for her to come out. Same with a female taking a young boy into the same women’s facility?

@wordler ’family’ or ‘unisex’?

at my leisure centre it is unisex for swimming, with no single sex options.

I have two daughters and DH takes them out without me frequently. Particularly over the school holidays as we don’t have enough leave to take it at the same time.

I don’t think there is anything unsafe about them using the men’s toilets as required. They go in and out, men are doing their business but discreetly (apparently).

Obviously, family facilities would be preferable but I don’t think there is a safety issue.

I agree. I have an 11 yo son with ADHD, and it’s not until recently I’ve felt fully happy with him using the men’s toilet alone. Like it or not, it’s men who are a threat to others (including other men!)

I think we need a total rethink of how we approach toilets and the division of space tbh.

I prefer single cubicles for everyone straight off the main corridor, with a sink inside. And plenty of these being suitable for disabled people. I know a lot of women don’t like this because men can be disgusting and mess up those loos, but I think the answer to this is to make that socially unacceptable.

Urinals and that whole “semi private” space between the main door and the cubicles needs to go imo.

Family, although it does include the disabled, wheelchair-accessible shower and toilet room at the end of the family room. So the only single adult you'd expect to see in there would be someone who needed the accessible room.

There are both single sex options and then the family one.

Actually, this place has two sets of single sex changing rooms - a women's swim changing room, and a women's gym changing room. Plus the same for the men.

It’s not that girls aren’t safe in the men’s if they are young they will be with their dad, it’s the urinals that bother me, I don’t think it’s fair on little girls to be exposed to that.
As for boys (and people won’t like this) I have always felt 8 is far too young to have to deal with a potential predator in a changing room. If there was a family space, a mum (like me) would have a space to take her son.
Just to add I don’t think this is a problem for women to fix, but I do think there is an issue with public toilets and changing rooms in the situations I’ve described not being safe for children.

I don’t think it’s safe after what happened to my ds when he was 8 years old. He went into a men’s public toilet to see one man giving another a blow job. They couldn’t really fit in the cubicle so they were half in half out. Ds was confused, scared and upset. He ran out and it took me ages to get him to tell me what happened. He was 16 before he went in a public toilet again!!

I would like to see more single toilets like the disabled ones.

I do, I’ll admit I have a dark view on men, I’m a survivor of SA, domestic violence and I’ve been flashed at around 6 times. Men don’t walk around with predator on their forehead, I don’t think it’s right to play Russian roulette with girls or 8 year old boys, there should be another, safer option.

I think young girls (under 8) with their Dad are much safer in the men’s that 8 yo boys alone!

I don't think its a big deal for a little girl to go to the men's with her Dad. She isn't going to be standing there staring at men as they pee, she would just be walking past with her carer. Plus it's just a normal body function, most little kids have seen their Dad go, it's not something dirty or shameful. I know someone who brought his DD swimming every week and she went into the changing rooms until she was old enough to go alone to the women. She used the private cubicle but walked past men getting dressed and would have seen some exposure for sure. I don't think our bodies are something to be ashamed of, I also find it uncomfortable that people always think of everything as sexual, I sometimes wonder if it's more a reflection of them and their dirty minds.

I have an 8yr old DS who uses the male toilets by himself often. I stand outside or watch the door and if he takes longer than he should I either open the door and shout it (if no one else is in there) or ask someone to go check. So far he's never needed to use a male changing room alone as our local pools have shared unisex facilities.

If we went somewhere very busy (ie an airport, train station, football ground) id make DS come to the women's with me unless DH was also around. Small pubs, restaurants, softplays, cafes etc I let DS go himself. I think that's quite standard, at least it is round here!

@CatamaranViper I was the same when DS was younger. I would sometimes shout as he went in the door just to be extra careful, 'remember I'm right outside waiting and I'll hear you if you call for me..'

I totally agree with this. Especially in really busy areas. I think that's something that's really changed in the last few decades is that there are many more public toilets in really busy areas. Like when I was young (30-40 years ago) I'm sure normally if you needed the toilet while you were out you went to a cafe that had 1 or 2 toilets. Now often you get a shopping centre with a huge bank of toilets, many people coming and going and often no doors on the toilet sets, just on the cubicles. It's far more difficult to know who's in there and also easier to get a child out without being seen.

I also find it strange that years ago small places would often have one or two toilets with sinks in the cubicles that served both genders and yet now if you make the toilets mixed gender to incorporate people who have adopted a different gender identity, or to make it easier for male and female to go together, people seem to think it's less safe.

That’s terrible @MissyB1your poor son! I’ve always thought 8 was to young!

I used to think that until my son started growing up. He's only 7.5 and I don't want him alone in the men's.

It has nothing to do with a dirty mind it’s to do with the fact that men are a danger to women and children. I’ve been flashed at to many times to want to play let’s hope the men in this changing room aren’t dangerous around children.

They probably are, who decided 8 years old was the age boys had to go in alone? How an earth is a little boy supposed to defend himself if needed?
I think it’s crazy, women dont want men in their spaces (understandably) but it’s ok to send a child into a room full of them!

This is the problem with Mumsnet, they see male children as ‘men’ and therefore aren’t interested in their safety.

My son is 12 there is no way he would be seen with me near the ladies now (and I wouldn’t take him anyway) but at 8 I would have. Men are dangerous to women and children, just because the child is also male does not mean that they are safe or that it isn’t a woman’s problem, because those children have mothers who love them and who would be devastated beyond belief if something were to happen to them. There absolutely should be parent and child facilities however realistically it costs too much money and there is no political will for it. We are more likely to end up with trans only facilities than we are with parent and child ones (beyond baby changing).