Children’s spaces

[VivaForever81]

Inspired by another thread, I’ll start by saying I do not think men have the right to use women only spaces.
I also believe that the current setup of men’s/womens/disabled toilets and changing rooms is safe for children.
In an ideal world I would prefer for anywhere that provides the use of public toilets to have to a unisex family facility with cubicles.
I don’t think that our current way of providing men’s/womens or disabled is safe for children.
I don’t think little girls out with their dad should have to go into the men’s, I don’t think it’s safe that boys once they get to 8 should go into the men’s alone and I don’t think it’s fair on those that are disabled have there facilities blocked up with parents and children.
what do others think, would you like to see a change?

I will be letting my son use the women's facilities until I think he's ready to use the men's alone. If that's when he's 10 or 11 then so be it. I couldn't give a shit if that upsets you. What threat do you think a prepubescent boy will be to women?

Its not that long ago that 8yos were considered old enough to walk to school alone, go swimming or the cinema, or go to the park alone. So no parent meant need to use the right facility. With toilets... old enough to need a parent means parents right toilet is fine as long as the parent takes responsibility for their behaviour.

But open plan changing rooms... understandably the girls don't want to hang with boys, so its the boys who can't be there. Family cubicles are needed.

No, you misunderstand me.

The problem is either caused by men (male violence) towards boys, or is a problem for men (dads with daughters).

Therefore men should sort it out.

It’s not just women in a female changing room. Girls are also entitled to privacy, dignity and safety.

When DD was around 10/11 she hated boys being in the communal changing rooms at our pool. Some of them would stare - their mums wouldn’t necessarily notice as they’d be dealing with another child so no doubt they considered their sons to be fine in the women’s changing room.

Sorry, I wasn't clear in my post. I was specifically referring to toilets, when we are out without his Dad. So, my son (and everyone else) would be in their own cubicle.

For swimming pool changing rooms, I only ever use the family changing rooms, which basically consists of larger enclosed cubicles. I wouldn't take him into open plan changing rooms at this age (he's 7), especially, as you say, that girls his age would be in.

I think it's safe for girls to go into the men's with their dads but I don't think it's equally safe for young boys to go into the men's on their own. On the other hand I do think it would be safe for young boys (i.e maybe between 8-12) to go into the women's alone. But I can understand if women or girls won't like that and I wouldnt want groups of almost adolescent boys in the women's while my dd is in there on her own.

Anyway my point is that basically it is men that are usually the problem and pose a threat to everyone else. I've got no idea what the solution is unfortunately.

Line two
it is safe

line four

it is not safe.

So I can’t follow what you mean.

but yes I think there should be a closed space for adult and child.

I visited popular retail place today with my 10yo DS who’s severely autistic and wears nappies day/night.

There are several cubicles in make/female toilets and only 1 disabled toilet.
The queue was not long but disabled people take a bit longer.
There were 3 people with walking sticks/crutches before us and lady on wheelchair waiting after us.

Sometimes there’s no disabled toilets available. DS needs assistance so when I have to I take him to ladies and we go into one cubicle.
I’m not comfortable with that as he’s growing older but the alternative is me going with him to gents (which will probably happen)

I wish there were more disabled toilets available and they wouldn’t be abused by people who don’t need them.

We were recently in Liverpool and I commented to my DH when we got home how nice it was that so many places had unisex toilets so I didn't have to wait outside while the kids (6 and 9) went to the toilet by themselves. It felt a lot safer. But then I have never really understood why more places don't have unisex bathrooms - what are people doing outside the cubicles that they wouldn't want people of the opposite sex to see but that strangers of the same sex are ok to see?! Genuine question as I really don't get it 😂 But then I'm Scandinavian so maybe the whole unisex thing is just in my blood

I certainly would not think an 8 yo is safe alone in a men's toilet. I'm not saying using the women's is the solution but let's not pretend that the alternative is fine for a second.

DS7 goes into the mens and I wait outside for him if it's just us out. What there does need to be though, is a large enough cubicle for a pushchair in the regular toilets. I found it incredibly frustrating having to use the disabled loos for myself because I wasn't about to leave infant DD outside the cubicles whenever we went out without DP. To this end, family toilets would be helpful. The type where you have all the facilities in with you so there's no shared space with other randos

I’ve just read my post back, lots of mistakes! I meant the system in place is not safe for children.

There's a community space near us which ds and I use a lot which has a unisex family toilet which I personally feel is a good set up. There's equipment for the kids to use in all the cubicles and by the sink (potties/ seat inserts and steps, plus a few changing stations etc. Then they've got a separate accessible bathrooms if anyone doesn't want to use the family bathroom with the same equipment in it or has mobility issues. They're both always clean and well maintained.

"What there does need to be though, is a large enough cubicle for a pushchair in the regular toilets"

Absolutely this. And a toilet in baby changing rooms/breastfeeding rooms so you can change your child and actually have a wee yourself if you need one.

I have had similar thoughts OP.

When we take our DCs swimming, I tend to take my DD then swap car at home with DH, who takes our DS.

However, I like us to both have a turn with both children. I also don’t like the idea of my DD in the men’s changing room, or my son once he is over 8 being alone changing in the men’s, which I can’t go in. Our pool for lessons has no family changing cubicles with lockable doors like bigger pools.

I’m often with both DCs alone, and it also made me think of single parents navigating all of this.

Genuine question. Why can’t everyone use the disabled toilet? I mean we all have to wait anyway, including pregnant women or a woman with a period emergency. Does being disabled mean that you shouldn’t have to wait a couple of mins to use the toilet? I mean if there are 20 women and girls lining up to use the toilet and the disabled one is empty, why can’t they use it too? Is it exclusively for someone who is disabled? Or is it a toilet that is available and accessible for a disabled person? Hope that made sense?

I do agree that big family bathrooms are very useful.

personally though, I’d be less worried about leaving a toddler strapped in to a pushchair in the ladies the other side of a door from me while I wee, than sending a 7 year old boy in to a men’s toilet where I can’t see or hear what’s going on.

I do not understand why grown women are scared of 8 year old boys in toilets, I really don’t.

My ds was fine going to the mens loos, he wanted to from about the age of 7 I waited outside for him
.

I’m with you OP 100%
I particularly like the set ups a lot of shopping centres have where you have ‘family’ bathrooms. Means you can change a baby, do a wee yourself while looking after young children (especially if you have multiples). They’re spacious, one ‘family’ at a time so gender doesn't come in to it. It’s a much better experience as 1. you don’t have to squeeze two people in to a cubicle and 2. all of your OP. I would not be comfortable with my DD going in to the men’s with my DP and actually neither is he, he will always ask me to take her to the women’s.

In large new builds the answer would be male toilets, female toilets and several ‘accessible’ toilets that can be used by anyone that needs the space. Our local cinema actually does this quite well, there are two sets of normal toilets (each with a double door entry so not ideal for a pram) but at least 3 self-contained accessible rooms. It’s a small and underutilised cinema so the chances of there being 3 disabled people all needing the accessible loo simultaneously is slim. They do baby friendly screenings so when I took DS I’d use one of the accessible where I could push his pram in with me. Our local newly built trampoline park has ALL large self contained rooms with both changing stations and grab rails, about 12 of them. It’s ideal.

I know of at least one shopping centre that has mens, womens, disabled, baby change and family toilets - each is in a separate room with an adult toilet, child toilet and sink. Ideal for those with little ones that may be toilet trained, but still in a pushchair, or for slightly older children, especially if a girl is with their dad or a boy is with their mum. I know there wouldn't always be space for this, but i am sure there are others around.

It is not just about the grown women, what about the 10yo girl starting her period? Don’t you think she is entitled from privacy from the 8yo boy she might know from school?

Perhaps the 10 year old girl should shut the cubicle door!

Why 8?

Has anyone actually seen any signs that say 9/10yo boys can't go in womens toilets with their (female) caregiver?

I cant remember ever seeing any actual regulations about it unlike changing rooms where its up to the management what age they set.