SIL still isolating due to covid risk

[dragontears]

AIBU to think this is no way to live now? She works from home and will only leave the house for essential errands with mask on. She is terrified of getting long covid. Feels like her life is very very limited for a 38 year old!

Anyone else have people they know in this position? How to support them?

Interesting that this is from the BHF given that I have a congenital heart condition myself. I have a personal interest.

You'd be aware of this then:

"Research suggests that Covid-19 can increase the risk of heart and circulatory conditions, like heart attack and stroke, after infection.

A study published in the journal Arteriosclerosis, Thrombosis, and Vascular Biology in October 2024 used data from over 11,000 people, with and without existing heart or circulatory conditions, who tested positively for Covid-19 between February and December 2020. This was before the Covid-19 vaccine was available in the UK.

Compared to nearly 220,000 uninfected people, those infected with Covid-19 were more than twice as likely to have had a heart attack or stroke or died from any cause by October 2022.

For people who were hospitalised with Covid-19, the risk of these events was 4 times higher than for those who did not test positive for the virus."

How does Covid-19 affect your heart? - BHF

I doubt I will change anyone’s mind on this, but have just thought of an analogy that is hopefully relatable.

I live downunder where the risk of skin cancer is very high. Does this mean that we never go out in the sun? No! To do that would mean spending limited time outside, with all the benefits that brings, and also not getting enough vitamin D etc. Instead, we avoid the sun in the middle of the day in summer, i.e. the most risky scenario, much like we would avoid someone symptomatic in the case of Covid.

Everything is a risk/benefit analysis. I don’t think anyone on here is denying that covid has potential long-term effects, more so that assessment of risk has been hijacked by anxiety for some people.

Yes, we can see that you don't agree with her assessment.

Still, could you just plan more open air stuff with them and see? Not wanting to go to the pub isn't the end of the world.

You've said now that you are in Australia, so the summer is coming. Suggest some low key (not overcrowded) event outside, so they can taste the options.

Not really. You also promote and widely agree that you should use mitigations - suncream, sun hats, cover up, sit in the shade. Also if someone chooses not to they don't cause someone else to get skin cancer.
However where are the mitigations for covid? Someone wears a mask and they get harassed, someone wants to avoid risky areas they get labelled as having mental health. No wonder she doesn't want to mix.

Yes. I take anticoagulants and have very little worry of thrombosis as a consequence. Even so, I recognise the risk as small and the risk of "mitigation" to be high.

Yes I am genuinely interested - and not just on this thread but by the anger generally that Covid discussions sets off in some people.

My feeling is that it harks back to resentment and frustration regarding Government lockdown measures, and, for some people, more specifically the discovery of a double standard for some. It's as if people isolating now triggers a kind of re-living of that time for people who found it very difficult.

In addition, or alternatively, I sense a degree of insecurity, either around deep-seated fears for their own health that it's too inconvenient to face, or around a sort of fearful guilt that people might in some way blame their choice of how to cope with the risks as spreading or being selfish, ignorant or thoughtless of others. And I agree that at the time, this last, in particular, was quite a prevalent attitude.

But times have moved on. There is no lockdown, and no-one is expecting everyone to isolate or wear masks. The days of people's choices being curtailed have passed - so why humiliate and do exactly that - curtail choice - for those who choose a more home-centred lifestyle. There has been lots of twisting on this thread: the Sil doesn't get sunshine, her children (that she doesn't have) are suffering etc etc. I do believe there is an issue that she and her DH need some kind of compromise as relationships do involve compromise. But beyond that, it's simply no-one's business. I understand the op would like to see her DB more often, but there are loads of reasons extended family don't live exactly as and how you'd like them to.

Yes I am genuinely interested - and not just on this thread but by the anger generally that Covid discussions sets off in some people.

Anger, mockery, bizarre accusations, and the use of all caps. It is an odd response, seen repeatedly.

Exactly. The heat and vitriol is coming from people who could just turn a blind eye and get on with rolling the way they roll.

No she doesn’t. Her child will get bullied relentlessly and that will do far more damage than any illness

I’m interested too!

There’s often an assumption that people sat at one end or the other of a scale - very pro lockdown and every rule that went with it or vice versa. For most, their circumstances are a lot more complicated than that.

@Calliopespa The reaction to COVID and the hysteria affected me badly. Given my health condition, the messaging scared me to the point where in March/April 2020 I would have near panic attacks going into shops. I genuinely believed we were entering a bubonic plague scenario and therefore the government was not being extreme enough. To me, riding your bike was stupid, if you fell off you'd be taking the bed o someone who had COVID.

Things slowly changed for me as the months went by. I had written off the older members of my family and assumed that they wouldn't be strong enough to survive. Then my husbands 88 year old Alzheimer's suffering grandmother in a care home contracted COVID, and she suffered a cough and a stuffy nose. Then I started reading and interpreting data that didn't seem to match the doom press conferences we watched. Then I saw cases fall to the hundreds, and deaths to single numbers. And yet, here we were, economy stopped, shops and pubs closed, making banana bread still with no normality in sight. To add to this I saw that deaths "of COVID" were actually deaths "with" COVID, and that at times of high prevalence, deaths figures were massively overstated. I started to see that COVID was nasty, but no where near nasty enough to warrant what we had done, and I felt lied to and gaslit by the government. I knew no one that had had COVID any worse than a bad case of flu. Bed for a week was the worst. My extended networks are large, work, partners work, family, friends, acquaintances through hobbies. Plus the reality in clinical settings according to my husband just weren't equating to what we were hearing on the news.

Lockdown 2 and 3 were particularly difficult for me. Despite the arrival of vaccines we were still in this loop, and it felt like we'd never see light again. I wasn't allowed to practice my outdoor hobby, although dog walkers and bike riders were free to enjoy the land I was paying for through my memberships.

The goal posts kept shifting. Normality by Christmas. Until the elderly are jabbed. Until everyone is jabbed. Christmas freed. No, Christmas lockdown! Freedom by the daffodils, no tulips, no after everyone is jabbed. Brief freedom, then masks are back, another Christmas Lockdown averted mainly down to Rishi Sunak, but it was close. Scotland shut hospitality for the Omicron cold, legislation renewed.

I suffered with insomnia and a kind of malaise that almost saw me lose my job. I saw no light at the end of the tunnel for a normal, purposeful life, and I felt like there was nothing I could do about it. I wanted to attend the protest marches, break stuff, and show my anger, but my husband has a very high up job in the NHS and I didn't want to draw attention to him with my actions. I contemplated suicide, but thankfully I had good people I could talk to.

Perhaps the most senseless part was the illness and passing of my husbands other grandmother. 98 years old and we only saw her through the window on her 98th birthday. The only time in 18 months. For her safety. Who were we protecting? She died in May 2021 I deeply regret our stupidity for listening to that rubbish rather than keep an aging dying woman company in her last few months.

It was an awful period where scare tactics were used to enforce compliance. I am confident that long-COVID paranoia is a far greater disease the the post-viral syndrome often deemed "Long-COVID". People are free to choose their paths, but they will be subjected to scruitny. And yes, I find it hard to keep quiet when I see examples of peoples unwarranted paranoia affecting and influencing the quality of life of others.

This was exactly the sort of background I was expecting @Everanewbie and I am enormously sorry to hear it. But can we not treat everyone with compassion and gentleness regarding their responses to what was, in our lifetimes, a truly extraordinary and, for many, very scary time.?

The SIL isn't really harming anyone beyond perhaps her DH, whose role it is to work with her and find what works for them as a couple. Labelling people as hysterical or OTT really doesn't I don't think, help them on their journey - and I am so glad to hear you were able to make your own journey through the anxiety at your own pace.

It is an emotive topic, and everyone's emotions around it are valid.

Thank you for sharing your story. Understandable that you have strong feelings on the subject, given those experiences. 🌸

@EveranewbieI appreciate your honesty.

Except they aren't.

Thats your experience but not the total sum or final word on the 'truth'.
I have friends who worked in Covid wards - they're STILL trumatised by what they saw and went through.
I also have family killed by covid, one who caught it from hospital.
Sorry you couldn't cope but that doesnt change the truth that millions were (and still are) dying OF covid. And millions are suffering with long covid and covid damage. Your experience does not give you the right to dismiss others.

This absolutely. Feelings and emotions are valid whatever they are and experiences and recollections will vary. My stance is that whatever we see as "normal life" and whatever we choose for ourselves, we should respect people's absolute right to make different choices for themselves. Yes, as with all choices they will come with consequences. Labelling such choices as "ridiculous" or "needing to see a psychiatrist ASAP" are neither right not reasonable. I also think that @Kiwislices makes an excellent point.
"There’s often an assumption that people sat at one end or the other of a scale - very pro lockdown and every rule that went with it or vice versa. For most, their circumstances are a lot more complicated than that." most of us were just doing our best, struggling to make the best choices that we could in circumstances we had never before experienced.

With the exception of the initial vaccine rollout, I don’t think covid has been handled particularly well at any point - including now. I also think the downplaying (by some) of covid inc. long covid and the downplaying (by some) of lockdown, especially to the people most affected by them is cruel.

Recent estimates according to ONS are 51 COVID deaths in the UK in July. There are unlikely to be millions of deaths this year. Suicide is a greater killer now. Also, ONS estimate 1.9 million people claiming to suffer with Long COVID, which is 2.9% of the population. That is quite a hefty number, but it is a stretch to call that millions. I am open to being convinced on Long COVID, however, it remains diagnosed as a diagnosis of exclusion based on a range of self reporting symptoms. I am sceptical that it is an issue beyond any other post viral syndrome, and is only elevated due to a) its prevalence based on a novel virus and b) the scary name. And as I mention earlier, I am convinced that a non-insignificant number use this as the new bad back.

I think the issue is that you’re implying here that ‘post viral syndrome’ is nothing too serious. Yes long Covid is a post viral syndrome (I think it’s being renamed as ‘post Covid syndrome?’. And there’s a huge scale from people not being able to get out of bed or leave the house to the less severe where some people just can’t exercise in zone 3 and have to be careful with energy levels.

There is an expert who believes there’s lots of people wandering around with LC and just don’t realise as they’ve not trying to exercise to an intense level.

The problem we are going to have is that for post viral syndrome- with something like flu - most people only get flu once every 10 years.
Covid is constantly circulating and we are not really developing immunity. We have immunity more against serious disease but not post viral issues.

So surely that number of people with Long Covid is just going to grow and grow?

So no, deaths from Covid are no longer an issue. If you are a women around 40-60 then I’d argue you are at elevated risk of Long Covid. More research is needed as to why women of this age are more affected. I think hormones (lack of leading to inflammation- Covid exacerbates inflammation) and the fact that we often have kids, jobs, house to look after and tend to push through when we’re ill.

We can’t hide away but this is a big problem. I’d like to see more research on to causes, why some people are more affected than others and treatments.

I'd concede that it is an issue that needs further research and possible therapy. I am sceptical, but the shear prevalence of COVID suggests that the resulting post viral syndrome maybe an issue for healthcare on a population level. But I cannot agree that it is anyway a reason to curtail a full life on an individual level in fear of. And it certainly isn't a reason to drag your spouse down with you over.

No definitely not a reason to curtail life at all. Life is for living.

I think it’s more that we need to be aware that Covid can cause more issues than we previously thought in healthy people. And like I said - people should just use a bit more caution if they think they have Covid. It’s not something you mess about with or try and push though. And I say this as someone who had a very mild case so it’s tricky to judge.!

I agree. Something for the NHS to fund research on, get better at diagnosing and work on therapies. But not to wear masks to school over, or make your other half quarantine in the spare room with a mask on after a trip to the pub.

It's hard to quantify something we no longer test or measure but let's go with the figures we have and see how flawed they are. As the quote goes "If we stop testing we'd have very few cases"
It doesn't include those who aren't tested. As an example - only because we forced the hospital to test my relative did they acknowledge they had contracted covid - (in fact it was part of a ward outbreak) so if it hadn't been for us pushing that wouldn't have been recorded, possibly blaming pneumonia instead (which covid causes).
Initial infection itself is now less of a concern (thanks to vacccines), however the damage it causes can lead to death later. As cited by BHF - but will those heart attacks caused by covid damage be registered as a covid death? No.
Initial covid infection deaths have thankfully dropped enormously but haven't gone. But this is the issue people only focus on that initial infection they don't look at the longer term impacts. You mention suicides rates increasing...the stats don't tell us why...is that covid driven? The disabilities/health conditions they are left with - the impact that's had on their ability to work/function? We know disability and sickness is rising to highest levels. Why? Could that be due to covid damage? We've stopped all wastewater testing (although I believe this is being restarted at some point?) If people know the levels of prevalence they could act accordingly.
We have millions of kids suffering Long Covid. Loosing their childhood and their education. These kids will grow up to be our ill workforce - what damage does that do to the to economy? (Not to mention their lives!) US now believes 5.8m kids have LC overtaking asthma - their highest childhood disease.
Remember, covid isn't one and done. Each infection puts you at more risk each time - there's no max limit, and currently no real treatment.
Also we must stop badging this as 'forever' - there is so much research and trials taking place globally with good progress on neutralising vaccines.

I honestly believe if people were more open and accepted that covid isn't just a cold and really should be avoided, and were supportive or even indifferent to those who choose to take precautions then less people would feel forced into shielding. If people could go about wearing a mask without vile comments rolled eyes, being spat at, coughed at etc etc many would be doing even more.

The constant rejection of covid and vilification of those who wish to be cautious being a problem has knock on effects. We're now at a point where kids aren't being vaccinated for anything and we no longer meet our herd immunity targets for other illnesses.

Long Covid Kids | Charity | Post Covid Syndrome https://share.google/P0isVz4614q3z2UDD

What's it got to do with you if someone chooses to protect their health? Why do you get to dictate?