SIL still isolating due to covid risk

[dragontears]

AIBU to think this is no way to live now? She works from home and will only leave the house for essential errands with mask on. She is terrified of getting long covid. Feels like her life is very very limited for a 38 year old!

Anyone else have people they know in this position? How to support them?

Some of this is overreach and a blinkered desire to attack her lifestyle though.

The SIL is going for walks, so her cardio and vitamin D are likely fine - much, much more so than the huge numbers of people who, yes, get out to the pub - but take the car.

It is also being brushed over that the SIL works. We have not had details of that, but, even working from home, few roles allow this to happen in social isolation. Many - or most - WFH employees chat on teams etc; but that does alleviate social isolation. She also has a DH living with her. Define isolation? How many people are required for you to concede it isn't isolation? Many, many people on this very forum often lament they have no real friends, just a life of rubbing shoulders with people but nothing deeper. It may be the SIL has rather more than that.

I expect I could find holes in your lifestyle were I to apply my views on "ideal."

To my last I would add, were the op living alone, not working and never leaving the house, the levels of concern on this thread might be justified.

But she is doing those things.

To me that shades into alarm that she is just not doing the things "the average Joe" on here likes to do in their downtime. She is in a relationship, she takes regular exercise, she has a job - a summation that many members of society cannot lay claim to.

@mumatlast14 you are being extremely disingenuous. If you are someone whose consultant has advised specific actions because of extreme clinical vulnerability then fair enough but i can tell from your posting that you are in that group of people who have mentally constrained themselves in an invisible box because of perceived risks.

You are wrong. Its so interesting that those who claim covid is no big deal are those who havent read any of the studies and will dismiss those who have.

If the SIL had medical conditions that made Covid more dangerous for her, the replies would be very different I believe, but the main point is she doesn't. She, a perfectly physically healthy woman, is refusing to meet younger family members even outdoors. This is not normal or proportionate behaviour.

she has the choice and does not choose to do this. Who are you to decide what someone else "need"?

I have not decided to box myself in and in fact do not. But I do support the right of people with competence to live their life the way they choose to and yes, to abide the consequences of this. you may not agree with this. Objectively she may not need to do this to remain healthy but she has chosen to do this. Its not the Op's business to intervene.

did you see the bit about how she makes op’s brother isolate in the spare room and wear a mask if he goes to the pub for 48hours?

as someone who is long term ill myself with a similar illness ,where have i said that covid is no big deal? Its been devastating for many and long covid has impacted many peoples lives in the same way as CFS.I’m an ex health professional and have read plenty precisely because i have a similar illness and am being treated in the same groups with the same approach as those with Long Covid. It’s your interpretation of the studies and your resultant behaviour that is faulty (again, unless you are extremely clinically vulnerable, which i dont know if you have disclosed or not). There are plenty of people who recover from long covid, but this is less likely to include those who are choosing to shut themselves away from normal life.

What a strange response. Clearly if you don't catch covid you won't risk long covid or other covid damage. How is it a 'faulty' response to avoid a damaging illness? The idea that anyone who chooses to do so is mentally ill as pervthe theme of this thread is ridiculous. As others have pointed out - she works, she socialises in a different way - she has learnt to live with covid unlike those who will eventually pay the price of repeated infections.

@Calliopespa

Some of this is overreach and a blinkered desire to attack her lifestyle though.

I don't think so. This is a woman who imposes significant restrictions on her family's lifestyle, particularly on her husband, because of what is in her case a fairly low risk.

I've said several times I am not seeking to change this woman's lifestyle and if she wishes to live in a state of perma-isolation that is her choice.

But anyone who expects their family and wider networks to fit into this worldview without any negative impact is deluding themself. Why should her husband be obliged to restrict his own life to cater to this? Particularly as she's not in an extremely vulnerable category.

If I told my partner that I was taking a vow of silence and chastity and no longer wished to communicate with him he might, not unreasonably, decide that I had changed the terms of engagement in our relationship. It would be entirely my choice, but I wouldn't blame him if he decided that he didn't want to continue on this basis.

People don't live in a social vacuum. If you choose to live an extreme and highly restrictive lifestyle and to impose it retrospectively on the people who are closest to you, you can expect some of them not to adhere to this.

Some people choosing to live this life seem to want to cherrypick the benefits of social contact with an extremely limited group of people (ie those in their inner circle) but to expect those in the circle to also eschew their wider networks. If you, as a sentient adult, take the decision that you no longer want contact with the vast majority of people in the world, don't expect other people in your inner circle to accept this without question. It's highly disruptive to their lives and they haven't chosen it.

Masking, ventilation and sensible precautions are one thing. Expecting your family to distance from you every time they meet other people other than you is controlling and unreasonable.

I'm sure you mean well, but it really is none of your business how she chooses to live her life.

I think your response is the strange one…how do you make sure you never catch covid? We couldn’t stop the spread when we all had to mask up and socially distance; they can’t stop spread within hospital environments, medical professionals with it continue to work and we no longer isolate people in hospital with it because that horrendous time has passed. How do you have children and a spouse and never catch Covid without imposing unacceptable limitations on your family?

Eh?

when you’ve had long Xovid you’re much more likely to get it again. Keeping away from people is the only way to not catch it again.

Exactly. The language around more introverted people is bizarre here. eg:

she is wasting some of the best years of her life rotting away indoors

Dont be daft! I have had CFS for decades do you honestly think i should have avoided people my whole adult life.

As a concerned sister, it is her business if her brother must wear a mask in his own home and quarantine in a spare room for 48 hours if he dares visit a pub. And anyhow, since when are we banned from having an opinion on other people? No one is talking about forcing people to do anything, but surely she, and us are entitled to a discussion?

Except we could.
Addenbrooks demonstrated using HEPA filters in wards removed covid. Same with using FFP3s instead of baggy blues. Unfortunately we don't properly fund the NHS.
The gov view was also based on slowing the spread not stopping it - along with 'who shall we save' and standardised DNRs - so we know not all lives are equal.
Avoiding covid is simple - mask, ventilate - except the lack of general knowledge makes it harder to do meaning many restrict thir interactions with those who have no covid awareness.

@mumatlast14 again, how do you stop your child or your spouse contacting Covid and passing it onto you? Covid will always spread because we are human beings who generally need to have contact with other human beings. I know nothing will change your mind but i dearly hope you are not impacting on your child’s mental health.

Only she can make that choice

No, it is not her business. It is theirs.

Would you watch someone you love dearly be dragged down like this, and controlled, completely irrationally without giving it a second thought, because it isn’t your business?

It is vascular. How you could have missed learning this in all these years is odd.

You can give it 1001 thoughts, it is still none of your business and beyond your personal powers to control.

It might be worth having a chat to her where you just listen to her and empathise. Don’t try to argue with her or persuade her, just say you care about her and would like to try and understand more about what is shaping her decisions and lifestyle. Sometimes that can open to door for people to admit that actually, on some level they realise what they are doing isn’t proportionate or sustainable, but they are stuck with their fears and can’t move past them. That can then open the door for other people to provide support, and for change to start to happen. I have struggled a lot with similar feelings; I’ve always had health anxiety and covid hit my anxieties hard. I’ve not yet had it due to being very cautious, masking etc., and for quite a while I would have thought your SIL was right. I’ve slowly been able to dial down the precautions over the last year or so, and I can eat now in restaurants, go bowling, wander round the shops, see friends, etc, but if someone looks or sounds unwell, that’s it, I’m out of there or I’m putting a mask on. But I’ll get there if I keep working on it. The thing is, it’s easy to overestimate one health harm versus others, as you and others have said, and some of the information out there on covid cautious groups makes Covid sound like it will either kill you or turn you into a zombie. It’s not a nice virus, but as you say, living a life in fear isn’t great for you either, which is why I’m pushing myself to get as much normality back as I can. It could help to find something which really matters to her that would provide an incentive to open her life up a bit. For me it was my kids, I didn’t want them to live with me being so different to everyone else and possibly develop anxieties of their own due to my behaviour, and that incentive keeps me moving forward even when it’s uncomfortable. If you can talk openly with your SIL you may find similar incentives for her. You sound like a caring and understanding person, you may be the key to unlocking the cage she has trapped herself in.