four children and a funeral

[FlayOtters]

I would be interested to get others' opinions on this. My DH's maternal grandfather recently passed away at the age of 90. Obviously sad as death always is, but a swift end to a long and full life.
The funeral is in a couple of weeks and we are starting to get pressure from MIL for our DSs (5 and 2) to attend the funeral.
I do not want them to attend for a few reasons:

• Practical - the funeral is being held a 3 hour drive away from us, on a weekday when DS5 will have just started back into yr1.
• Inappropriate - I think a (very religious) funeral is not a pleasant environment for a 5 year old. He's not really old enough to understand and will definitely be upset by it.
• DC2 would absolutely not sit quietly through the service. He would squirm and whine and have to be taken out anyway.

Basically I'm not sure whose benefit it would be for them being there? For context BIL will almost certainly bring his two (younger) children and that will be used against us. TLDR: what do you think? Should young children have to attend great grandparents funeral?

Absolutely no need imo. I wouldn’t even consider it.

It's entirely your decision. In my own family, children that young don't usually attend the funeral service but often attend the wake.

Absolutely not appropriate for such young children.
This is such a bizarre statement to me. We went to loads of funerals as children. It was just what was happening. There was no concept that we would be excluded
Why would anyone expect them to attend.
Everyone in my experience. And me, I would. Usually. I think the school day and the extra generation removed means there is an excuse to not go that could be used but I'd be surprised by anyone not taking them as an otherwise active decision.

Of course they don’t have to attend. If they didn’t know the gggf, then there’s definitely no point. My dc (10, 7, 5, 3) attended their ggm funeral recently, also v religious (which was a good thing, a service of hope and comfort) and they enjoyed it for want of a better word. It was helpful. They will
attemd their ggm funeral, which will be a flight away, when it happens.

If your 2 year old isn’t good at sitting still it may be best for them to miss it though. I’d give the 5 year old some sort of say.

I agree they are too young in my opinion and it will be super stressful for you and everybody else potentially. Also it's 2 kids, maybe if it was just the 5 year old it may be different. Especially when you should have space to emotionally support your DH too. I didn't attend family funerals til I was over 10 and I'm pleased. I did go to the wake however , could this be a compromise? X

I always advise to take them if the person organising wants dc there, yes some bits will go over a 5 year olds head but he won’t be anywhere near as upset as most the adults, the fact it’s religious is not relevant and says more about you that suitability for a child. After funerals there’s typically food (and alcohol in some traditions but tea and coffee in others) and at that point having the dc there really lightens the atmosphere, it’s passing on the baton to the next generation in fact. Last one I organised (professionally) there was a 10 day old baby there and at the request of the family we brought the baby up to the front during the service and said a special blessing prayer then played circle of life on the organ, was very moving, but very fitting too when someone following a long life.

i suspect some people just aren’t used to kids being at funerals but it’s completely normal and you just sit on the end of a row in case plus bring quiet distractions. By the time my dc were your dcs age op they attended church so 45 minutes was no issue

Your question is do they 'have' to go. No, they don't 'have' to go to anything.

I have taken mine at any age to funerals as they are part of the family. They were always fine but I did always at at the back, just in case a younger one needed taking out. This happened once with a four year old when the funeral service was a ridiculous 2 hours long. I wanted to go out after an hour and a half when it wasn't coming to an end too!

The three hour drive is the part I would hesitate over. That's tough with such young children. I'd only do it for the closest of relatives and then arrive the day before, stay somewhere overnight, go to the service, stay another night, then go home the next day.

I think taking them to the wake / food after it would be a good compromise.
The wake of a 90 yo should be more of a party and celebration of life than a sad occasion.

I took my DD to my grandmother's funeral - she and the other little ones were mentioned as being part of the cycle of life and DGM living on in them.
Not sure if would take children out of school would depend on who it was.

I can see it both ways (and a side pondering that I often think in these threads - because fewer children go to church and schools don’t do or expect children to sit down for extended periods, children now can’t know how to behave at something like a funeral. I know DD wouldn’t at that age, but I probably would because of going to mass every week).

Funerals are for the living, not the dead. I don’t quite agree with the “children aren’t a prop” - many people going to funerals are acting as a prop to the grieving - isn’t that just what friends and family do for each other?

I think if you have a plan like whisking the children outside if they start to struggle you should be fine. Or taking them to the children’s play area in the church if there is one.

How well do they know their cousins?

I don't think they are too young to go to a funeral, but they don't have to attend. I took my child at 15 months (had to sit at the back and take him out part way through) and again at 7. Between that I declined another one because it was too much hassle as he was at school and he didn't know the person and I hadn't seen them in years.
I don't think it will be upsetting for the children, they don't really take it in in the same way. Taking them means you'll probably miss most of the service though so you can just say it's not appropriate.

Interesting variety of opinions, thank you. It's certainly not a big drama but I obviously dont want to introduce any additional upset at this time.
A couple of PPs have said it's not relevant that it's a very religious service - it is relevant to me. We are not a religious family at all and DS5 is quite upset about his great grandads death. We already had quite a palaver at Easter when his (allegedly non-religous) school did a LOT of teaching about how Jesus came back from the dead, everyone lives in heaven etc, and he's already asked if ggf is going to come back like Jesus 😬
I think if we can make logistics of travel/accommodation work, I will take them to the park or for a walk during the service and then meet everyone at the pub wake afterwards, that seems a good compromise.
Really interesting to hear varying opinions though and limited MIL bashing which is refreshing!

Funerals are for the living. The dead don't care.

MIL has just lost her dad. If she will deal with her grief at the funeral better if surrounded by her grandchildren then it's kind to try to facilitate that if possible. The question is, does she accept that the 5yo and 2yo will not be remotely capable of sitting still and being quiet? I have been to funerals of age90+ much-loved great-grandparents which were quite deliberately a family celebration where the noise of the little ones was welcome and not shamed at all. The children were told the life story of the person who died and were not expected to be mournful or quiet. If it's going to be like that, take them. If the ceremony is supposed to be formal and quiet then obviously your children shouldn't go, but try to make it possible for them to be there at the wake.

Your 5 yo will not suffer any detriment from missing y1 school timebut woukd certainly be affected detrimentally if forced to be more silent and still than is really possible for a 5yo.

I took our son to a funeral when he was under 2 and I just took him out during the actual funeral. I think you could do the same during the service. They will provide a good distraction for the older rellies at the wake.

I think you have your answer here. Your DS5 is already upset, and the funeral will be too much for him. Much better to go to park and meet them afterwards. Hope it all goes ok for you all. X

If he's already upset then isn't there a good chance he'll be more upset about being excluded from the normal opportunity to say goodbye?

This reads like you're more concerned about keeping him in line with your own atheism and "protected" from all that religious stuff you don't like but he's clearly interested in if he's been asking questions.

absolutely not, you've got me totally wrong there.

If I were you, I'd just attend the wake with the kids.

We have always gone with the compromise of bringing children to the wake but not the actual service. That way we talk about the family member by the photos set up at the wake.
We have had a family friend look after them but also one of us when it wasn't possible.

I don't think it's fair to be wrangling a child and them basically getting told off for not being able to sit/not make noise etc which is normal for a young child. A religious service always lasts more then 30 mins for a funeral.

Edit to say children also ask very blunt questions around death which is normal but probably not the easiest to explain in the middle of a funeral when everyone is upset to start with.

I wouldn’t take my kids that age to a funeral and you should stand your ground! It’s yours and DH decision

Absolutely not and no. What benefits are there to taking them? None. What negatives are there? All that you’ve listed, plus if they don’t go what’s going to happen? Nothing. And what about if they do go? Emotionally traumatised potentially. No reason floor a child that young to be attending a funeral.

I think the drive is more of an issue than the funeral itself. I don't think the funeral will mean anything to your children either. If you can attend without them, I would.

No way.
They don’t need to to they’re far too young. They’ll have no idea what’s going on so why are they going? For whose benefit?!

If there’s other children there and they’re ok with the disruption/chaos they can sometimes bring. Maybe just to the buffet/meal/refreshments.

It is a long drive and I can see the benefit of the little ones not attending, but if you and everyone are ok with them there I would think about it.

Its mental to take the kids, you have enough going on and need to grieve,reflect. And have quiet, and space to talk, how disruptive are the kids going to be? dont even consider it