Flags..

[Elephant9]

Just a chat to understand what’s going on with the influx of England and UJ flags all over the streets?

thoughts?
where did it stem from?
is it making you uncomfortable? (It is, me, but not entirely sure why)

Exactly .. I’ve been saying this for ages. And if these men are fleeing war torn countries, they are leaving behind women , children and the elderly, as you say.
And doesn’t that show what calibre of men they are if that’s true ?

That’s what I don’t understand. Surely they would be protecting the vulnerable, either by evacuating them or staying to protect them. By leaving them to fend for themselves, surely that is putting them in serious danger.

Did you think all the men are fleeing ? Some of them are going ahead to establish a better life elsewhere. They’re not “abandoning the vulnerable”, they’re looking for a safe, stable place for them to live. Putting a vulnerable person on two rickety dinghy trips over open ocean would be far more reckless.

so they’re leaving vulnerable people in a war torn country? And that’s somehow safer than fleeing? But what if they are not allowed to bring their families over? Will they go back? What you’ll have is a lot of very vulnerable people with minimal protection stuck in this “war torn” country and a lot of men capable of protecting them in this country. Surely it would be better for the men to stay and fight? Or are you saying they are cowards?

I am also confused though @HangryLikeTheHulk why would they have to put the vulnerable on a dinghy? They could claim asylum in the first country they came to and settle there couldn’t they? Why would they have to be on a boat?

90% of Afghan refugees end up in Iran & Pakistan. Of the remaining 10% most come to Europe as they have connections there already, and of those only a minority come to the UK. So it’s not a mass exodus leaving the vulnerable behind as you’re disingenuously trying to portray.

I have connections in my he USA Canada, NZ and Australia. It doesn’t give me a right to settle there. People should claim asylum in the first safe country they reach surely, the purpose of asylum is to find a safe place not pick and choose place of abode and yes undocumented migrants are a problem throughout Europe

In case of a situation where you felt compelled to get out of here and seek refuge, it’s very likely that you in particular might try to go to those locations rather than randomly go somewhere else where you have no connections.

And you absolutely DO have the right to seek asylum in those places, to have your case heard, and to be given a roof over your head, food and access to healthcare while your case is processed.

Am I allowed to remove flags from public property?

As an immigrant im really quite upset that someone in the dead of night a week ago has chosen the lamppost outside my house to hang a flag to. I have had many people ask why I put it up. I've been accused of being racist.
It's the only flag for about half a mile. Outside my house. Just my house.

So am I allowed to take it down?

I have reported it. Highways agency said they would remove it. Today I received an email from them saying the reform county council has vetoed the removal of flags unless they are a danger to motorists.

So now what do I do? It feels horribly intimidating. I can't ignore it. It is outside my bedroom window

Can you safely remove it or ask a friend to help remove it ?

It's 10 ft high.

I have asked people to help me and they all keep saying they can't so I feel really poo tbh.

It has really shaken me. Do you think if I ask to borrow a ladder I might have more success? I guess that's my next move.

You might yeah. Or appeal on a local Facebook page for someone to take it down.

Fire service? They have big ladders.

The police advised to contact the highways agency, as it's been vetoed by the council I'm worried I'll be seen as a time waster if I contact the fire brigade.
One of the neighbours called them when they found a sheep in the road though so maybe!

I think this might be the best bet!

Thankyou. I'm not normally dithery at all but I'm suddenly frightened. I dont want to anger anyone, or overstep. But equally I don't want to look at a sneakily erected flag outside only my house every time I leave the house or look outside! The constant visual reminder that someone saw fit to put it there is really wearing me down.

I would just leave it. It’s most likely a coincidence about where it is. If it has been placed there on purpose it will probably be replaced which will no doubt make you feel worse.

The less fuss made about flags the better, it will just become normal to fly the flag like most other countries.

Normal countries don’t have far-right driven campaigns to spam them up lampposts, in this case directly outside an immigrant’s house.

We should not have to put up with public infrastructure being co-opted by the far-right and vandalised.

Your comment just shows how misinformed you are about the world right now.

Which other comparable country currently has a far-right driven campaign of daubing paint on mini-roundabouts and other infrastructure, and spraying racist slogans on immigrant-owned businesses ?

I appreciate what you're saying and I have honestly tried. I kept quiet and reported it with no fuss or involvement of anyone else. The highways agency were very understanding and placed it on a 28 day removal notice.

To get an email telling me this had been overridden by my reform council 5 days later felt like a kick in the face. To have an organisation openly hostile to immigrants telling me to suck something up that would usually be taken down by the council feels like an endorsement of irrational hatred.

Either one of my neighbours has put it up (in which case they know exactly that I'm an immigrant) and is pretending they haven't,
Or, someone from outside the community has come up in the dead of night and placed it away from themselves into a community other than their own. Both acts are hostile.

I cannot ignore something that is directly outside the front of my house. I live in a dead end road. There is no through traffic. I have spent all week trying to rationalise it and being understanding. I have now had enough.

Does anyone know if I can legally remove it myself if I find a ladder?

No they shouldn’t. What if the first safe country they reach is a tiny, poor country. Look at Lebanon. Their population is only 5 million and 1.5 million of those are refugees. That’s like us taking about 30 million refugees. There is nothing in international law to say that refugees must stay in the first safe country. It’s impractical, unfair and quite ridiculous.

We are signed up the UN refugee convention. We have a legal, as well as a moral obligation to take our share and frankly we take far fewer than most countries of our size and standing.

The Facebook idea has not gone well.
I should, in retrospect, have asked on my page instead of the local group.

2 people are arguing about who is the real rascist, and someone has asked if they can borrow my ladder 🤷

Thankyou for the idea though, it has at least kept me entertained!

Surely the best solution is to assist in these countries where there are similar cultures for the refugees though. So maybe provide funding to these countries to help with the refugees.

We signed up to these conventions when the refugees landscape was very different the situation needs a complete overhaul.

we need to support people to improve the countries from which they came. Otherwise the problem is going to keep building. Most of the countries from which people are fleeing appear to be heavily religious..maybe we need to be encouraging more secularism as a counter to the theocracies

There's a group of men dressed all in black with their faces covered currently going around my town at 10:30pm with a ladder placing flags very high on every lamppost they find.

If this was just a lovely, normal show of pride in the country and the flag with no dark / xenophobic / racist side to it, why aren't they doing it in the daytime, or showing their faces, or wearing suitable reflective clothing for the night time?