Money 'borrowed'

[Alice19876]

I got married three years ago. To my husband who is a tradie who works hard for our family while I stay home with our twins who are 18 months old.
I am very lucky to be a stay at home mom and my husband works very hard to provide for us we don't live beyond our means and have one holiday abroad a year and one year in England.
when we got engaged we planned a Cyprus wedding but due to Covid that fell apart and we lost about 1.5k in deposits.
due to this we decided to have a cheap uk wedding in December in a beautiful venue that does packages nothing I don't regret. Now here comes the issue, I'm an only child and when my parents were there during my engagement they was over the moon for me they even offered 10k to get married abroad and I was shocked but so thankful. But obviously due to Covid the wedding abroad it never went ahead. Since we moved the wedding to the uk and it coming a lot more my parents said it was ok the budget was still the same. While we paid other fees. ,then they made changes to the wedding ie the evening wedding food was a basic package but my dad wanted the upgrade to a hog roast which was 1.5k including other changes, my wedding dress they said not to worry so we went shopping for my dress I found a lovely one for £800 but my mom made me try on a 2.5k dress with a 1k veil and extras. But they reassured me, I'm their only child and little girl it's okay. Then added extras as their friends are coming, a harpist which they wanted etc so it came about 10k but we put the rest.

happy wedding and all good until yesterday. My parents informed me the wedding money they 'loaned' me they need back in a year. It wasn't ever a loan and I'm shocked. It's been 3 years and never mentioned once. My dad is taking early retirement this year which I don't blame him but they want the money to go on a cruise. As I mentioned I'm a stay at home mom to twins and also now another baby on the way. Where do I get this money from? When all along for 3 years plus the year before telling me not to worry. I feel sick, I have such a good relationship with my parents so I don't want this to affect our relationship. But I don't have a spare 10k they told me I shouldn't have gone on holiday this year and gave them the money instead but they have never mentioned this before!? If it was a loan it would've been paid back since we first got married. I can't sleep as I'm so worried. Aibu? Do I just take a loan out?

I’d be inclined to calculate all the “upgrades” that they asked for or encouraged you to make, and pay them the difference. I.e. pay for the things you actually wanted and would have booked with your own money, and they can cover the difference. Have them explain to you why you should pay for things they asked for? Why you should pay an extra 2k for a dress you didn’t pick, one they told you to get.

This. It’s unfortunate.

OP, did you mention that you wanted the cheaper dress, didn’t want the harpist, and didn’t want their friends there/only invited them because they were funding it?

You’re not employed, so have no way of paying them anyway.

As PP says, their only recourse is small claims court, but without a written agreement, trying to claw back what a parent spent on a DD’s wedding for their own retirement plans won’t get far.

I think I would do as PP suggested and calculate how much extra their choices cost and repay the difference. Going forward, I would be very low contact, they are making another choice which will cost them far more than money and perhaps they haven’t considered that.

As a parent I cannot imagine treating my child like this, especially as you are their only child and there is no question of giving any other children a similar sum of money as well.

Do not give them one penny! They seem batshit crazy anyway.

Did you or your DH ever Sign or put any kind of signature on anything the DP’s might have retained?
I don’t suppose you have, so just tell them you cannot afford to pay them for what you never asked for.

I wouldn’t be paying them a penny and I’d make that quite clear to them.

They have clearly changed their minds with your father's early retirement looming and the lack of income coming in soon. No one is buying that it was ever a loan. You are not in any position to pay and nor should you imo. The spending of £3500 on the wedding dress/veil is somewhat making me cringe though, whoever was paying.
I personally would be prepared to fall out with them over this though as they appear to be prepared to put you in a precarious financial position by asking for this money back and seem to be grudging you much-needed family holiday time to boot.

I’m afraid your relationship will never recover so you might as well not get into debt to pay them the money. It’s definitely not a loan by the sounds of things.

my DSis did this to me, albeit on a much smaller scale (hundreds not thousands) and we’ve never been the same since.

I don't suppose there is a wedding video of the speeches where your dad stated how proud he was to pay for the wedding? (A gift not a loan). That might help clear things up?
Really sorry they have done this OP.

Tell them to take it out of your inheritance, which of course you hope will be a long way off, so say they can add on some interest if it helps!

You accepted their help in good faith, they haven’t mentioned loans and repayments before, there is nothing in writing. I don’t know why they suddenly need the money, but that is their problem to deal with, not yours.

I too would assume it was a gift and not pay them anything. We had gifts from both sets of parents when we married without interference but help with planning when asked.

MoneySavingExpert has a guide to borrowing and lending money with friends and family. It is very clear that you should only lend money you can afford and you should have a written agreement, which can be informal for small amounts but £10k isn't a small amount. No written agreement = gift not loan.

Prioritise your DH and DC over your parents changing their minds. Be very firm in any discussions.

As a gesture of goodwill you could give them a £100 gift card towards a happy retirement but that would be it.

I don't think you do have a good relationship with your parents because treating your child like this isn't what you'd find in a good relationship.

I find it shocking that they interfered with your wedding by changing things like the food and dress and adding extras that they wanted. Providing money towards a wedding doesn't mean you can interfere like that.

They gave you the money as a gift and if they didn't, they failed to make it clear that it was a loan. It not hard to say "we can lend you 10k, but will need it back".

What's happened is they gave you the money, now they're feeling short on cash (which is ridiculous because it's for a cruise) and they're asking for it back. It's plain wrong and really horrible that they would put you in this position.

Iif it was me, I would start by telling them that I understood it to be a gift and by pointing out that much of the increased cost was dictated by them when they demanded extras or changes to the wedding plans. I'd make it clear that I don't think it is fair to pay it back because of this. If they didnt accept that then I would agree to pay the 10k back (at my own pace) but would make it clear that its damaged our relationship beyond repair.

If they think destroying their relationship with their daughter is worth 10k for a cruise, there is something seriously wrong with them.

Mostly because she said she has a good relationship with her parents. And it may not be good if she says she won't pay any back. I suppose it depends what's more important.
I cant believe in 3/4years they didnt discuss this at all. And at no point did the fact that it was a loan come up

From a legal perspective you cannot gift somebody something and 3 years later ask for it back.

There's two issues here, the first being the money and you should hold firm and confirm to them they indicated it wad a gift. The second issue is the damage to the parent child relationship and sadly for me, that would be severely damaged.

Op did your parents give you 10k into your account then get the wedding upgrade, or did the upgrade happen then they paid the difference?

Please do not do this. This is terrible advice.

Do not get yourself in to debt with 3 children under 3 and one person working - just so your parents can go on a cruise.

I think you just explain it like you have here - you wouldn't have made those changes and some of them were at their request. At no point did they indicate it was a loan so therefore you will not be paying them anything.

It sounds purely like they want a fancy cruise and have decided to get you to pay for it!

I think I’d pay it back at £100 a month and lower contact

So it's been three years since they gave/lent you that money (with no repayment schedule set up or repayments made) and no mention has been made of the 'loan' in all this time?
It seems to me their circumstances have changed and they now want the money back (eg for the cruise) so they are furiously backpedalling.

Unpleasant for you and of course it will change how you view them and your relationship with them.
But I suppose for family harmony you may have to agree to repay it, in instalments, not as a lump sum which you cannot afford to do at present. So they will have to suck that up.

You do not have a good relationship with them! What loving parents would pull this stunt? They are so unreasonable.

I did once borrow some money from my DPs (which I paid back quickly and with interest). There was no paperwork, signatures or formal agreement - we just trusted each other. It sounds like the OP had similar trust that she was being given a gift and that therefore there was no need for any signatures. Her DPs' behaviour seems very odd.

As PPs have said…if it was indeed a loan, you would have been paying monthly instalments over the past 3 years.

There are at least two questions at issue here @Alice19876 and both of them are for your parents rather than you.

The first is, given the amount involved, if it was a loan, why isn't there any paperwork to that effect? They didn't sling you £100 to tide you over till payday.

The other, related question is that if it was a loan, why have they waited three years before raising the issue? £10k is a lot of money to lose access to for that length of time without either paperwork or a plan for repayment. If your parents are trying to spin a gift as a loan three years after the fact, it gives the impression of bad faith and District Judges really don't like it; this is assuming of course that the claim isn't passed onto a higher court for being £10+.

As other pps have suggested, there is nothing to suggest that you owe your parents any money at all. That said, any evidence you can find that positively states the money was a gift, including items that they paid for directly and where they were the customers/clients rather than you and your DH wouldn't hurt. And as pps have said, if the money was a loan, why did your parents assume a right to tell you what to do with it?

How much extra did they make you spend? Was it from the 10k? The hog roast, the dress, the harpist... Was there anything else? People they wanted to invite etc? Roughly add up the cost for this, point it out to them and say that you never wanted all that and they wanted it therefore those are their expenses to take on so you will pay them the rest. Hoping it's less than 5k they actually contributed once you take away their choices that they wanted because you're their only daughter! Then agree to pay them monthly as it was a gift so you didn't plan to have to pay back a gift. Pay what you can afford to pay monthly.

But it was clearly a gift so you could also say no. Either way, it will ruin the relationship you have anyway.

Agree with this OP.